Genealogy Chat

Can anyone help - it looks as if my great grandad married his wife's sister after her death. I have found a marriage certificate for them in June 1881 but in Nov 1881 my granddad was born in a workhouse under mums name. Greatgdad married someone else in 1882. My granddad and his mum seem to have disappeared then I found them and she refers to herself as a widow. Would there be any way to check out what actually happened happened following the sister in laws wedding, would the marriage be annulled or just ignored, would it be recorded anywhere? Many many thanks Elaine.

If you can give the names and place of birth for the families concerned someone will take a look for you.

Do you actually have all the certificates?

Christine

George Charles Banks born c1842 in Paulton Somerset (I can't as yet find the birth) married Mary Mclure or Mcclorey. Mary died around 1880 (I have her death cert), they had 2 children James and William. They lived around Barnsley and Wombwell in Yorkshire.1881 census shows George and children and sister in law. George married Margaret Elizabeth McClorey in June 1881. (I have this certificate) Charles was born in Nov 1881 at Toxteth Park Workhouse (I have the cert). The 1891 census shows Margaret and Charles age 9 she says she is a widow. George married Mary Ann Popple previously Slater in 1882. George died in 1910. I can't find out what happend to Margaret and Charles or if her marriage was deemed illegal. Thanks.

Sorry I wanted to say that even though George appears to be from Barnsley area he married Margaret in the Liverpool area and gave his address as Fisher street Toxteth Park. I wonder if they were together after the wedding ..................

Hi Elaine,

i know that at one point a Brother was not allowed to marry his dead brothers wife...............and I think this went into the start of the 20th century, so I wonder if the same rule applied for sister in laws??

I'm sure someone more clued up about this will pop along and help.


Dee x

Just found this;

"In the UK it was illegal to marry your dead wife's sister until 1907 when the Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Act was passed.
Until this time canon law had prevailed. Canon law is basically Church Law and this had taken the point of view that if a man and woman marry then the husband is related ot the wife's family and therefore any marriage would be improper.
However, the reality of many peoples lives was such that if a wife died and she had a younger sister who was unmarried (or even an older sister) then the spinster would move in and look after the children.
Obviously in the late 19th Century a man and a woman living out of wedlock gave rise to concern for many within the Community, so the law was passed in 1907 to ensure that standards could be 'maintained'. However, it was not until 1921 that the Deceased Brother's Widow's Act was passed!"


Hope this helps,


Dee x

some Somerset Banks - 1881

Thomas BANKS Head M Male 50 Chard, Somerset, England Shoemaker
Harriett BANKS Wife M Female 50 Bicknell, Somerset, England
Elizabeth MC DONALD Daur M Female 28 Bicknell, Somerset, England Laundress
Julia BANKS Daur Female 18 Chard, Somerset, England Charwoman
George BANKS Son Male 14 Chard, Somerset, England Shoemaker Boy
Walter BANKS Son Male 12 Chard, Somerset, England Scholar
Annie BANKS Daur Female 8 Chard, Somerset, England Scholar
Mary BANKS Daur Female 7 Chard, Somerset, England Scholar
Frederick BANKS Son Male 4 Chard, Somerset, England Scholar
Tarrance MC DONALD Grand Son Male 2 Forton, Hampshire, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Forton 5 Clifton Terrace
Census Place Alverstoke, Hampshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341285
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 1164 / 114
Page Number 13

Well my grt gran married her cousin in 1893 and in 1899 she married his elder brother who had been married to her younger sister !! so real round robin .
She married two brother who were her first cousins AND the second brother was also her Brother in Law, may not have been legal but it happened!!

1901
there is a Charles Banks born 1881 with the family

George C Banks
Age: 59
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Poulton, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Wombwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Wombwell St Mary
Town: Wombwell
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England


Registration district: Barnsley
Sub-registration district: Darfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 143
Household Members: Name Age
George C Banks 59
Mary A Banks 52
Charles H Banks 20
Elizabeth M Banks 17
Rhoda A Banks 13
Ethel Banks 10
George H Banks 7
Jemima Slater 76

My ancestor married his wife's sister after his wife died 1857 and
they married in a church.

Anyway found the 1881 census where George is with
his 2 children and his sister in law is living with them.

He married Mary Ann Popple(Slater) in who was married to Joseph Popple
he died 1879. George can be found 1891 census with his own children
and his step children and children he and Mary have had together.

Did he have your grandfather with his sister in law and
as she was unmarried he was born in the workhouse.
Irene

Do your 2 marriage certificates show the same father and occupation.
What about the witnesses - any clues there - do the addresses match up
with the 1881 census address. Irene

Just for ref.

Name: Geo C Banks
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Paulton, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Nether Hoyland
Ecclesiastical parish: Hoyland St Peters
Town: Hoyland Common
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:


Registration district: Barnsley
Sub-registration district: Darfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Geo C Banks 48
Mary A Banks 43
William Banks 15
Emily Popple 14
James Banks 14
Frances Popple 13
<<<Chas H Banks 11
Eliz Naomi Banks 8
Gertrude F Banks 6
Rhoda A Banks 3
Ethel Banks 1

Christine

Are you sure this is the same family as Margaret states born Liverpool whereas in 1881 she states born Ireland.

Name: Charles Banks
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Newton
Ecclesiastical parish: Newton St Mark
County/Island: Lancashire


Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Banks 34
Charles Banks 9


Christine

That Charles in 1891 and 1901 is son of Mary Ann Popple:

1881 England Census
about Mary A. Popple
Name: Mary A. Popple
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Boarder (Head) (Boarder)
Gender: Female
Where born: M Bretton, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Monk Bretton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 11 Chapel St
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Unemployed Linen Bleacher

Registration district: Barnsley
Sub-registration district: Barnsley
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary A. Popple 30
Emily Popple 4
Frances Popple 2
Charles H. Y. B. Popple 1 month

Maybe he is also son of George Charles Banks, if Joseph Popple died in 1879?

yes this looks like the case - but I also have a marriage cert for them June 1881 (George & Margaret his sister in law) I can only assume this was done for effect or they discovered they shouldn't have married afterwards anyway my grandfather was born in the workhouse the following November. He went to have lots more children with his next wife.

The Marriage Act of 1835 changed the status of marriages between persons within the prohibited degrees of consanguinity from voidable to null and void.

Thankyou - so I assume their marriage was just as if it never existed!

Elaine - yes, that's the legal situation.