Genealogy Chat

My Uncle Harold was born 9th July 1922 Manchester as Harold Mitchell but was named as Brierley when he went into Buckley Hall Rochdale with his brother Leo after the death of his mother in 1930...this was due to her living as wife to Harold Brierley snr but no marraige..after leaving Buckley Hall he lived with Leo in Mary St,Manchester near Strangeways and at the start of the 2nd world war when Leo left for the army in 1939,Harold was 17yrs old...I cannot find him after this and wonder where I now look for him..any suggestions-ideas welcome please as he could be listed as Mitchell or Brierley..thanks in anticipation..Wanda..

Was his mother already married to someone else at the time of Harold's birth?

Births Sep 1922 (>99%)
Mitchell Harold Goulden Manchester 8d 457 Scan available - click to view

Other siblings maybe?

Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
MITCHELL Mary Goulden Chorlton 8c 1831 Scan available - click to view
Births Jun 1919 (>99%)
Mitchell Leo Goulden Chorlton 8c 1057 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1921 (>99%)
Mitchell Nellie Goulden Chorlton 8c 1550 Scan available - click to view
Births Sep 1922 (>99%)
Mitchell Harold Goulden Manchester 8d 457 Scan available - click to view

His parents' marriage?

Marriages Mar 1914 (>99%)
Goulden Mary E Mitchell Chorlton 8c 1315 Scan available - click to view
MITCHELL Thomas Goulden Chorlton 8c 1315 Scan available - click to view
NOBLE Florence K Williams Chorlton 8c 1315 Scan available - click to view
Williams Charles Noble Chorlton 8c 1315 Scan available - click to view

Oh Heck, it is my friend Wanda from about 5 years ago, and yes, she will tell you that he could be Harold Goulden.

How are you Wanda?

Does this Harold Mitchell mmn Goulden help? Have you got his birth cert? Yes, you will have. I know you will have.

I have totally forgotten what we went through years ago, so post it all again. Nobody will remember now so we need a refresher course.

Friends, Wanda is thorough. She has searched and searched, and has left no stone unturned. You can be assured that she is well and truly stuck.

Could this be his death? Not knowing his exact date of birth.

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Harold Brierley
Name: Harold Brierley
Birth Date: 1923
Death Registration Month/Year: 1978
Registration district: Manchester
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 38
Page: 1293

Mrs Grumpy..everything you have is correct...
Madmeg..howdo!!!!!x..will send you email after this....

The story is this...Mary Ellen Goulden(Golden) born abt 1892(no birth has been found..long story but wont muddle it with this!)

She had an illegitimate son in 1911..William (Billy) Goulden..to Thomas Mitchell..she married Thomas in 1914 and had Mary Mitchell the same year..

Thomas Mitchell died in 1918 and she met Harold Brierley..Harold was married to Lydia Cadden...

She had Leo in 1919,Harold in 1922..Leo only found out when he went for his pension that he was Mitchell and wasnt born Brierley,so presumably the same thing would have happened with Harold..

In 1925 she had James and in 1928 Herbert..now Harold was named as father on their birth certificates...so they are Brierleys..


Young Mary died in 1935,6mths after marrying Thomas Delaney..


Old Mary died in 1930 as Mary Agnes Brierley (another name change)..

William I have never found and believe he was sent to Australia by the Salford courts..Leo died in 1996, James my dad died in 1999 and Herbert died in 2001..I found him after a very lengthy search..he called himself Peter,which was his middle name,Leos was Christopher and my dads was Francis..so Harold would have been given a middle name as well..

Old Harold died in 1940 in Chertsey in Surrey..he had joined up for the 2nd world war and died in the military hospital down there..

I sent for the death cert for the Harold who died in 1978..with it not having a definate date of birth I thought my luck was in(only my dad knew his correct date of birth) but the informant was his sister Edna Buckley..I found her marraige so know that death isnt my Harold...

Hope all this helps and like I said any suggestions at all would be lovely..thanks very much..Wanda...

Great to hear from you Wanda alias.....so many!

Have you tried electoral rolls for Harold?

No I havnt Madmeg..tee hee...right name for you I would say!!!

The thing is,I dont know where to start...he will defo have a middle name...the catholic rescue society made sure of that but no records were kept for Buckley Hall..the ones for my dad and Herbert were written by a child by the looks of it and Herberts was left blank..it wouldnt have mattered anyway as he called himself Peter and I wild goosed all over the place for Herbert..

Did he join up? By 1940 he was 18,however,Leo thought he was born in 1921 so did Harold think he was born later than 1922...poor old Herbert thought he was born in 1925..when I found his family I said did you not think it odd that he didnt fight in the war?
If I only knew his middle name..perhaps he used it instead of Harold..and then theres the surname..is he a Mitchell or a Brierley..

Guide me please as I am at a standstill...

By the way..I chose Angelas Ashes as when I read the book and then saw the film it was as my dad had described his childhood....x

Sorry forgot to ask...should I pop over to the records office or can someone do me a favour on here if they have ancestry please...

Mrs Grumpy came up with a child on the births..Nellie Mitchell with mothers maiden name of Goulden born Chorlton ,Mar 1921....

I never followed this one up as my dad never mentioned another sister,only Mary... and it was the early days on Genes and Ancestry when less info was on and a lot harder to look through...can anyone see a death please..my dad was a bright kid and would have known if there was another older sister about...thank you....x

On freebmd......

Deaths Mar 1921

Mitchell Nellie,.. 0 ....Chorlton 8c 1015


Gwyn

Is this Mary Ellen in 1901?

1901 England Census
about Mary Ellen Golden
Name: Mary Ellen Golden
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: South Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Chorlton upon Medlock
ED, institution, or vessel: 52
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 103
Household Members: Name Age
John Golden 42
Sarah A Golden 14
Mary Ellen Golden 8

Found the family in 1891 but John's father is listed as Rowbotham.

Perhaps this is Mary Ellen's birth?

Births Dec 1892
Rowbottom Mary Ellen Chorlton 8c 894

Rose

Aaaahh...Gwyn in Kent..thank you...looks good...will send for cert and give you feedback...

Its nice to still see some of the old names still on here...xxx

Thank you Rose(Your not Rose from Isle of Man are you?)...yes that is the family in 1901,surname spelt Golden...

Yes the 1891 shows John Goulden with father in law Thomas Rowbotham...however...in 1881,Sarah Goulden(nee Rowbotham) was married to John Crowther..so Eliza Goulden is Eliza Crowther...cannot find her birth..sent for cert for Elizabeth Crowther born 1879 Chorlton..wrong parents...
In 1891 I think Sarah Williams is Sarah Goulden in the 1901..

There isnt just one name muddled up..everyones is...also John Goulden is a hawker and so is John Crowther..born same year and both Manchester..

Rose...will have to go back into my notes and see if I sent for that birth cert for Mary Ellen Rowbottom..cant remember...with having sent for so many I checked family trees and found a few that I could provide with certs..then I put them on the site for sharing any unwanted certs...

If I carry on like this I think I will find out what share prices are for bmd.gov..I must have spent..better not mention in case hubby looks in!!!x

Folks, would you stick with this please? I know Wanda of old. She had some mega problems with her family switching names. She has researched herself to the hilt, spent megabucks on certificate, so rest assured she has worked hard. But she might have missed something, so if you find it, post away.

Thanks for that `M n M`...mad meg tickles me!

I just want to let you know that I have sent for 3 certs..Nellie Mitchell birth and death and also for the Mary Ellen Rowbottom birth...I didnt have a chance to look for the certs I have already..I fell down the stairs today and have really hurt myself..bruises,scrapes..you know..when your skin is down to raw..I cant bend so had no chance of getting the files from the attic and didnt want to chance any more stairs!!..my due date(that sounds well doesnt it) is 15 June so give 3 more days for post system..they will hopefully arrive before I go off on my hols and I can let you know...

Just to say a big thank you to mad meg for sticking with me and listening..I hope someone can just nudge me and I can say..yes..thats what I should do! Harold will be 88 and it is possible he is still alive..the photo I have of him in Buckley Hall age about 13 reminds me of a young Robert Mitchum..the only other thing I can think of is that going off the years 3 of the brothers died then he would have died between 1996 and 2001..logical thinking and if in order would be about 1997/8..and would probably be heart related like the rest of them...

Please rack your brains and help me as best you can..if not,then thank you for at least looking..if there is a chance he is still alive I want to find him..Tricia Goddards show never got back to me..will try them again...nite bless..xx Wanda.xxx

Recieved today the certs I sent for...very quick!!...Nellie Mitchell was another daughter but sadly died,1 day old..she was a premature birth...no father is named on the birth cert but the address is the same for Leo who was born in 1919 and the info I have on Harold Brierley (snr) shows him at the same address on his army papers,so he will be father....

The birth cert for Mary Ellen Rowbottom,1892,Chorlton is sadly not mine...never mind..it was worth a try...I am intrigued however that Mary Ellen became Mary Agnes on the childrens birth certs and she has registered them herself....

I have made contact with Jean on the records board re Harold Brierley/Mitchell(jnr) on the electoral role and have quite a few to look into...do I write to them?..If someone can give me advice would be very grateful...Wanda..x

Nudging up for advice please re electoral roll results...x

You should take more water with it, Wanda!

Hope you are okay before your hols.

Yep, write to people. Done lots of it meself and mostly positive. Guidance is don't go overboard, just state the facts and a bit of personal stuff to make you sound "safe". Hello, I'm Wanda Wobble, my father was.... and I believe he had brothers Fred, Pete and Joe. I know that Joe died in xxxx and married Mary Smith, but I am hoping to find what happened to Fred and Pete.

I'm researching my family history (for my son? grandson?), so I really just want to get the full picture about my dad's family.

Then be upfront about how you have found them, cos people worry about that.

I found your name on the electoral roll for xxxx (which is a public document) and wonder if you might be the Fred I am looking for. If you are, you would have been born in Manchester about xxxx and your parents would be A and B or possibly A and C.

I'm the daugher of Z, and I still live in Manchester, I'm 97 and have 14 children, and would love to know if I have found the right relative.

I enclose a stamped addressed envelope and hope you will reply to me, either to say "I have no connection with you" or hopefully "Yes, you have the right person".

Best wishes (better for older people than the popular Kind Regards we use now)

Wanda Wobbly