Genealogy Chat

I have just received a marriage cert dated 1842. Instead of the usual hand written style I have been sent a longer one that is typewritten. It is very disappointing. It is still green and has an MB number in the bottom left corner rather than the usual MXE number.
The green delivery sheet had a red stamp on it which makes me wonder if it was supposed to go to another department to be "written" and then sent out?

Have they changed the format? If so why?

Pat

I have certainly received a long (as in width) certificate (for 1841) but mine had been handwritten by the GRO. The cover letter did state that it had been sent for hand writing as the register was too fragile.

That was in 2005 so I guess that, by now, they are streamlined and enter the details onto a computer and then the certificate is issued.

Saves ink!

Chris

I don't believe anything has changed. If the original is intact, they normally send you a photocopy of the original GRO entry, which is what you see in the middle of the certificate. If ordered for the GRO this will not be the original cert, only the original GRO entry. If not possible to photocopy, then it could be handwritten or typed on the day of re-issue to you.

Ones I have from the local register office are both typed and handwritten at the point of re-issue. I don't have any original photocopies from locals but others on here have reported that they have - some with original signatures too.

Why are you disappointed? At least the info is clear and legible - I assume?

The ones you normally receive from the GRO - the photocopied ones - are not the ones that are signed by your ancestors. You have to look through the parish registers for those.

Jill

The handwritten certs from GRO all have the same handwriting so the same person wrote them out..

Signatures on marriage certs are not in the peoples own hand unfortunately

It is mainly marriage certs where originals are important. Those from the GRO are NOT originals, even though they appear so. They have been written out by someone else from the records sent to them by local offices, and may contain errors. Marriage certs from local offices are usually copies of the originals, with actual signatures (where the parties were able to sign). Birth and death certs are almost always compiled by a registrar or assistant, and may be photocopies of what was done at the time, or recent typed or hand-written copies.

I have my grandparents' original marriage certificate for 1903 and that does not have the actual signatures. You will only see those in the register from the church or Registry Office.

I have mum and dad's original marriage cert - and that does have their signatures on it ...

Jill

Thank you all for your replies.

Looks like this one was in too bad condition to copy so they have typed up a new copy.

I just think it looks so impersonal in type. I know it is not original writing but it looks so much nearer to the real thing.

The wider paper will not fit into my file either! Never mind. As has been said at least I have the info I need.

Pat

Surely nobody has their original wedding or birth certificate Isn't that retained by the registrar? I thought that all certificates other than the one retained by the Registrar had the word "Copy" appearing somewhere at the top of the certificate. Some clarification on all this would be helpful

All certificates are 'copies' of an entry in a register. GRO entries are a copy of a copy. My 'original' marriage cert is a copy, but is so happens it contains our actual signatures. Not all do.

Only the actual register is the original document.

Top of all certificates state "Certified copy of an entry of Marriage......"

The word 'Copy' also appears at the bottom, various wording - I have three examples in my possession.

1. Our weeding cert says

"I * Signature of Minister * an Authorised Person under the Marriage Act 1949 do hereby certify that this is a true copy of entry No xx in the Register Book of Marriages of the above-named building"

2. Cert issued by the GRO

"Certified to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a register of Marriages in the Registration District of XXXX" (Note copy of a copy comes into play as GRO does not have the original register)

3. Cert issued by Register Office

"Certified to be a true copy of an entry in a register in my custody signed * Signature of Superintendent Registrar *"

This has been discussed very many times.
My understanding is:-
All records are in registers.
No office holds certificates.
Marriage certificates should not contain original signatures but some officials will allow the couple to sign the certificate as well as the register.
Most couples only sign one register but a few have claimed to have signed two.Nobody seems to know what becomes of the second register.It may be for Bishop Transcripts or it maybe because a registrar officiated at a church wedding.
The only time you may be able to purchase a certificate with original signatures is if the registrars office has a scanner.Even then they might not have the original register.

I used to do secretarial work for a vicar.
At the end of every 'quarter' I had to use one of the two registers that he had - from this I copied the details from the marriage certificates, exactly as they appeared, onto separate sheets. These sheets were then delivered to the GRO.
When the books of registers were filled, one was kept in the church and the other (I think) delivered to a central diocesan archive.
So, somewhere, one day, maybe someone will order a certificate and see my handwriting!

So proof at last from Brenda

Not quite there, I'm afraid. Brenda's excellent description doesn't mention the entry that goes to the local Register Office.

That is a really useful contribution,From Brenda.
So, in that particular church the second register was for the bishop
The records passed to the authorities were loose,not in book form.
Now only Brenda can us if the records were actually not sent to GRO but to the local registrar.

My guess is that the church sends the what are deemed to be the "original" register pages to the local Registrar, who in turn sends a certified copy to the GRO (Hence the "copy of a certified copy...." that appears on a GRO issued cert)

Some churches may then send a copy to the bishop, but I think it varies from church to church i.e. non-conformists wouldn't, would they?

When I got married the vicar gave me a spare copy of the cert, so I have 2, both with different issue numbers and signed by all parties. I don't think he was supposed to do that, but he asked and I said yes. That was in 1985.

I will print off all the comments on here and let my sister in law have a lokk. She is a registrar so may be able to answer some of the queries. I won't be seeing her though until next weekend, but will report back with any info.
Cheryl
ps - very handy having a registrar in the family eh!

You can buy special sleeves for the long certificates, from various genealogy suppliers, not particularly cheap. I got my hubby to photocopy them onto A4 (at work!!) so I could (a) scan a copy to my computer and (b) put the photocopy into my folder. No, if doesn't look as good as the actual cert, but you could copy it onto pale green paper.