Genealogy Chat

Hi Everyone ...

I need to order a Birth Certificate for my GGF ... James Thomas Matthews born in Middlesex, London in 1879.

The problem being , he is quite a mystery and so far I've been unable to find him anywhere on any record search.

How do I order a certificate or even find the correct details so that I feel more confident that I am ordering the correct certificate?

His parents are Fred (maybe Frederick or Alfred) and May.

I know is basic details from the moment he married my GGM Harriett Covey in Brisbane Queensland but backwards we are struggling to find anything about him.

He was a Boer War veteran too but again I cannot find any details.

Has anyone experienced the same problem and if so, how did you get around it?

Kind Regards,
Katherine.

When you order a Brit birth cert you can use the parents as a checking point so you are not sent the wrong one. However you still have to pay a search fee.They return you 4 pounds. Also you can't put Fred if his father may be a Frederick or an Alfred because they won't send it unless it exactly matches your checking point. Even May could be a pet name for his mother.

When did he marry in Brisbane? He doesn't name his parents on the Brisbane marriage cert, or are they just Fred & May?

Have you found him on any passenger lists?

Where did he enlist for the Boer War - UK or Oz?

Ozi.

Have searched the Boar War records in Australia and he did not enlist in OZ. Also searched London Baptisms and none listed with Fred, Frederick or Alfred and May as Mother.

If you have the marriage Certificate, could you put the details on here please.

Gail

You cant ask for a checking point unless you also supply GRO references (up to 4)

If you haven't got the reference then you need to know the date of the event, but this only applies to events on or after 1st Jan 1900. On the basis that you can't satisfy either of these then you will not be able to order on-line.

I suggest that you email [email protected] or telephone Tel: +44 (0) 845 603 7788 and ask if there is any way they can help.

It may be possible to make a postal application, but I suspect that will depend on how much information you can provide.

Hi Ozi, Gail and Hawkwind ... thank you for your response.

The Marriage Certificate registration number is 1914/15071. He married on 20.05.1914 in Mission House, 452 Leichhardt St, The Valley, Brisbane.

His Marriage Cert and Death Cert list his father as Fred Matthews and mother as May, no surname on either document.

I assume Fred stands for Frederick considering James named one of his children Frederick.

He must have enlisted in the War in Aust as according to his Death Certificate he lived in Australia (NSW and QLD) for about 62 yrs - he was 79 when he died in 1958.

Seeing he was about 17 when he came to Aust I assume he came alone. I have no idea about his arrival in Aust and have not found him on passeneger lists either. By the looks of is he made his way to Brisbane via Sydney.

* Silly question but what is a GRO reference number? I'm relatively new to genealogy.

GRO reference number is the number and Quarter needed to order a certificate. eg; Volume Number; 1d Page Number; 123 and the quarter of the year say December and the year itself. Much the same as ordering a certificate in Australia, with a little more information.

He may not have enlisted in Australia, as even here a death certificate is only as good as the information the informant has, and this can be incorrect.

So firstly we need to find when he did arrive in Australia.

I have looked at the Boer War records and no joy there.

Have also tried the the Birth Indexes also not luck though a couple of possible, BUT, not sure. as the years not correct.

Will check back tomorrow as off to bed now.

Gail

I'm still concerned that May could be a pet name. These are the only Fred/Frederick & May Matthews children I can find on the census. They are siblings and nothing fits your info.

1891:
Alice M Matthews Frederick, May abt 1883 Highworth, Wiltshire, England Daughter Swindon, Wiltshire
John W Matthews Frederick, May abt 1885 New Swindon, Wiltshire, England Son Swindon, Wiltshire
Frederick R J Matthews Frederick, May abt 1887 New Swindon, Wiltshire, England Son Swindon, Wiltshire
Harold Jas Matthews Frederick, May abt 1889 New Swindon, Wiltshire, England Son Swindon, Wiltshire

Do you know his or his father's occupation?

Have been looking for this fellow for hours today, I could only find this so far. Unfortunately, there are several J Matthews on the data base, and trying to work in the time frame available.

Name: James Matthews
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Age: 34
Port of Departure: Glasgow Via Melbourne
Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales
Voyage Arrival Date: 19 Mar 1909
Vessel Name: Hector

Name: J Matthews
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Age: 28
Port of Departure: London Via Melbourne
Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales
Voyage Arrival Date: 12 Sep 1907
Vessel Name: Wilcannia

Name: J Matthews
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Age: 35
Port of Departure: London
Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales
Voyage Arrival Date: 1 Feb 1912
Vessel Name: Orsova

Name: James Matthews
Port of Departure: Auckland, New Zealand
Arrival Date: 8 Feb 1897
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ship Name: Himalaya
Search Ship Database: View the 'Himalaya' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Shaw Savill & Albion Company, Limited, 34, Leadenhall Street, London, EC
Official Number: 48594

Thanks Gail and Ozi I really appreciate your help !

It is odd that his mothers full name was not listed. It is as if he might not have known what it was.

I was looking on Ancentry.com.au last night and came up with a name of Henry James Thomas Matthews, Middlesex, 1879. I don't have 'World Access' so I am unable to look at the record.

Following that I found a Henry Thomas Matthews as a Boer War veteran.

**********
Surname MATTHEWS
Given Name(s) or Initial(s) Henry Thomas
Regimental Number 446
Rank Private
Unit Name 5th Qld. Imperial Bushmen
State Qld
Extracts and Comments
(from Sources as shown)
B5172: next of kin in New Farm Qld.

Source References
Murray: Official Records of the Australian Contingents etc. page(s) 502
B5172: National Archives of Australia series B5172
**********

I'm going on holiday on Monday so I'll have to see if I can get details of this file when I get back. He did live in New Farm so maybe this is a possibility.

Also, I have just gotten of the phone with my mother ... she said that her mother refered to her father as Thomas. She only learnt that it was James Thomas when she found the Marriage and Death Certificate. So maybe I'll start looking for Thomas Matthews.

I've noticed that people in our family have a tendancy to call themselves by their middle name or even a shortened form of their middle name. My GM went by her middle name and it was not until we found her birth and marriage cert that we learnt of it.

I gues this is the joy of family research.

Again, thank you so much for your help.

I had another thought ...

My mother and I started researching our family when we found an odd comment about James Thomas Matthews.

My mother found the booklet from his funeral so she rang the funeral company. They said that his coffin was draped in a flag and that there was a police road-block for the funeral procession.

This was weird as he has been listed as a Labourer and my mother remembers him as being a bottle dealer, or something like that.

This man is a mystery.

Just a thought, could his name have been Wilfred ??

Or Alfred?

Manfred? (less likely)

Margaret

I hope this is the one your referred to, parents do not match what you do have. Now if he was in the Boer War, what you describe as his funeral, would have been a soldiers funeral, so nothing odd there. Also nothing strange in not knowing his mother maiden name. All my family also used their middle names or nicknames, horror when trying to find them.

Name: Henry James Thomas Matthews
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 3 Feb 1878
Father's Name: Thomas Matthews
Mother's Name: Rosetta Matthews
Parish: Saint Giles, Camberwell
Borough: Southwark
County: Middlesex

I have to wonder if he was perhaps orphaned and really did not know who his parents were.

Have a great holiday and check back when you return. I will keep looking.

Gail

Electoral Rolls Qld
Name: Henry Thomas Matthews
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1905
State: Queensland
District: Brisbane
Subdistrict: Fortitude Valley

A possible as not far from New Farm.

That is a possibility Gail.

Where are you looking to find Qld Electoral Role info?

The only thing is that I have found him on Cencus records as James Thomas Matthews.

In 1925 James and his wife Harriett Matthews (nee Covey) were listed as living in James Street, Breakfast Creek. In 1936 James and Harriett lived at 38 Terrace Street, New Farm.

Perhaps he did enlist in the UK and came to Aust after that. Maybe the death cert suggesting that he'd been in Aust for 62 years was incorrect..

If he fought as a UK soldier do you think he still would have had a soldiers funeral in Aust?

I think there's something more to this than an ordinary soldier's funeral.

Road blocks? Lots of people must've been in the cortege or lots of people must've been on the streets to see it.

There would have been newspaper reports for something as big as this. Have you gone down that track?

Ozi.

Hi Gail / OZI ...

I'm back from my holiday and am on the search again.

Thanks so much for your help.

OZI I've not found anything on his funeral as yet but I will go about contacting the funeral home again in case they read out details for someone else - you never know.

I'm not sure what else to do. I may put another post in 'trying to find'.

Thanks again for your suggestions and tips.

Take care, Katherine.

Katherine, people who help on Tips also check Trying To Find.

I reckon it's a good idea to check the funeral home again. You have more questions you can ask now.

Ozi.