Genealogy Chat

I have been looking at a death cert for a distant relative who died in 1900 it says her husband who is at this time deceased was a Painter and Decorator (Master). Am I right in thinking he would have had an apprenticeship for this and if so any ideas where I can find out more?

Any help would be great

Might help to find him in census reports maybe? Just pass on the details. An ancestor of mine trained as a baker and lived in.
Jan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman

Thanks for all that, have just looked on the 1881 census and he is down as a painter (master) employing two men. Do you think he would be in a guild? If so any ideas where I would find such information?

He was from Salford, I am afraid I got so excited at having someone other than an labourer that I got a bit carried away, but I will try the national archives, who knows I may strike lucky. Thanks for your help it is appreciated.
Anne

Anne, have you tried finding him before 1881?
Jan

Yes he is in the 1881 census as a painter and decorator (master), he dies before 1891, I found him in 1871 but couldn't read his occupation, but it didn't look like painter - sigh!

Joan how lovely to become a freeman of York, I love that city. He was 26 in 1871 and looks like grainer as an occupation. He also marries in 1871 after the census is taken as he is still living with mum then and their first child is born two years later. I don't think he is likely to take on an apprenticeship when he has other mouths to feed. When I look at grainer written here I can see how easily it could be painter, but on the census records it is nothing like painter - sigh! It's getting late and i am waiting up for 12 x 18-21year old to come home from a night out in Manchester to celebrate someone's birthday, they haven't taken a key with them - ahhhh!
Anne

Anne, if you want several more pairs of eyes to look at that census, just post details so we can find it. What would a grainer be I wonder!
jan

Joan you are amazing, thank you, so he was in the business sort of in 1871. I thought I was going mad reading that as grainer, at last something other than a labourer, don't get me wrong I love my labourers but I have so many it is so nice to get something different!

Thanks everyone
Anne

Brilliant Joan! What would we do without the knowledge of the people on this site.
Jan

I agree Janet, I would still be sat here trying to work it out, so again a big thank everyone.

Anne

It doesn't say if he is employed, but I would imagine he was, here is the interesting thing, I have taken another look and his next door neighbour is a house painter! He could have done his apprenticeship with him. Would it say if he was an apprentice, I was wondering if perhaps he was still doing his apprenticeship or coming to the end of it around that time.

How interesting to have samples of a relatives work passed down in a will, wonder if it still survives in some attic somewhere?

He was about 26 in 1871 and he married that year, it doesn't say he is an apprentice, so he probably had finished by then and was working for someone else and later set up his own business. It was quite a commitment to give 7 years of your life, but I guess it was worth it in the end. I love this hobby as I learn something new every day!

Thanks again Joan you are a star
Anne

Have you tried typing in his name on the A2A site in case there are records held somewhere other than the National Archive?

I have in indenture for my gt grandfather who served an apprenticeship to become a painter and decorater. He served four years of long hours and little pay but got there in the end. Makes interesting reading. It was passed down through the family as in his wifes belongings when she died. I did get a copy of another indenture of a family member from the records office in Devon.
You could try the records office where he lived while he was serving his apprenticeship and ask - or indentures for the people he may have employed if you know their names through the census.
Good luck Irene

Try phoning Manchester library to see if they've got apprenticeship records in their archives.

Thanks again everyone i will try Manchester Library tomorrow. Sorry I haven't replied sooner, the kids didn't get in till 4.30am this morning and I was up to let them in, someone forgot their key!! I need a good long sleep now!

Anne

Don't get up to phone the library - it's Sunday tomorrow lol!!