Genealogy Chat

Isabella Williams
born third of july 1866
union workhouse Dartford Kent

father William Williams occupation Collier

mother Ann Williams

residence of mother
union workhouse Dartford

Births Sep qt 1866

Williams Isabella Dartford 2a 325

I have spent days over the years trawling though the census records birth marriages etc, and come up with nothing each time ,may be if I get to England next year go to Kent and start a search there, I will try and find Isabella death which means going quarter by quarter.

Thanks Annabel

Isabella is listed as being born c1865 in 1901 and 1911 though.

Seems odd there's no record of her before this. I can't find the Isabella born in Dartford Workhouse either.

Rose

I wonder if I have the right birth certificate for Isabella, she says she was born 1866 and its the only Isabella Williams born Kent 1866.
in the1901 census both she and James give st pauls Gravesend as place of birth but in the 1911 she gives Dartford Kent which is on the birth cetificate I have for a Isabella Williams


they were brother and sister in the 1911 census she was living at the same address in Bristol that she gave on James dearth certificate in 1909 , he died in Gloucester.

Annabel

"James Williams gave his father as john Williams occupation miller

on Isabella birth certificate her father William William occupation collier"

I'm not sure how they can be brother & sister.


Ozi

Hi Rose
his navel record is hard to read,

name James Williams

d/o/b 25th September 1860 born Gravesend Kent

date and period of engagement 25th September 1878 for 10 years

(but it looks like he was in the navy in 1876)


Ships served first one I can not read or the date then

ST Vincent 10th march - - 31st march 1876
1st April
14 march 1877 - -19th November 1877

then he served in more ships

HMS Warrior
HMS Duke of Wellington
HMS Atalanta
HMS Newcastle
HMS Cleopatra
this record ends in July 1881 but he was on the HMS Ganges when he married in Falmouth in 1883

as this is very hard to read going to send a copy to my niece who translates old documents she may make more sense of it

questions when did he join the navy?
was this document for him signing on for 10 years in 1878 on his 18th birthday
but listed the ships he had been on before. as a boy

hope this make some senses, will not have a lot of time today as I do a bit of voluntary work in a charity shop today.

thanks Annabel

Any more clues from his naval record that might help?

Rose

Just had a look at that 1871 census

I think I can cross him off my list, as I know my James and Isabella Williams were brother and sister ,she had a couple of his children living with her in Bristol in the 1911 census ,also I had a aunt named after her.

thanks Annabel

Here's that family in 1871 still in West Ham but there's no Isabella:


1871 England Census
about John J Williams
Name: John J Williams
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Gravesend, Kent, England
Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: Plaistow Holy Trinity
Town: Essex
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 16c
Household schedule number: 72
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary A Williams 37
William G Williams 14
John J Williams 11

Rose

This must be the family to match that birth cert. you have:

1861 England Census
about James J Williams
Name: James J Williams
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Gravesend, Kent, England

Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: Plaistow
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 252
Household Members: Name Age
William Williams 28
Mary A Williams 27
William Williams 4
James J Williams 1

Rose

Thanks a lot Rose for your time.

Annabel

Annabel,

Have to go now but will look at this later.

Rose

In the1891 census he is in Gloucester stating place of birth Bristol.

I have a birth certificate for a James Williams born Gravesend Kent September 25th 1859

Father William Williams a mariner mother Mary Ann Williams formerly Choiles found a marriage fior them 1854 Gravesend
tried them in the census but no luck

Ann

I see James in 1901. He's listed as being born Gravesend.

Where is he in 1891?

Rose

Hi Rose

James Williams gave his father as john Williams occupation miller

on Isabella birth certificate her father William William occupation collier

James was my greatgrandfather have a copy of his navel record but very hard to read gave date of birth september 1860 looks like he was in there from 1876

over the years of researching have found many lies on certificates which makes it hard work.


Annabel

Is this her in 1901?

1901 England Census
about Isabella Williams
Name: Isabella Williams
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Gravesend, Kent, England
Civil parish: Bristol
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Bristol
Sub-registration district: St Mary Redcliff
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 102
Household Members: Name Age
Isabella Williams 36
Alice Pound 35

Rose

Was William listed as James' father when he married?

What was William's occupation on Isabella's birth cert and James' marriage cert?

Rose

I can only find Isabella in the 1901 and 1911 in Bristol unmarried, both times she claims born 1866 Kent so that is the birth certificate I have,

also she reported her brother James death in Gloucester 1909, he was aged 47 ( 1862 ) can not find his birth have him in the navy 1881 census aged 21, (1860 ) his marriage in 1883 aged 26 (1857 ) 1901 census aged 45 ( 1856)
so James Williams gave lots of years of births born in Kent
1856
1857
1860
1862

This is one of my brick walls winter and wet here so thought I would have a fresh look at it but getting no were again . thank you Ann

Where is Isabella in 1871?

Rose

Only thing I see is the 1848 Liverpool one.

Rose

Please could some one look for a marriage for a Ann Campbell and a William Williams could be Kent they had a daughter Isabella Williams 1866 Dartford Kent, (union workhouse )
I found a marriage for a William Williams 1864 Dartford but no spouse, spending hours going though all the census but not finding them, any other suggestion where else I can look for them.


thank you Annabel