Genealogy Chat

Hi Maggie,

Hadnt thought that Martha could be the mother of any of the children and they could have married much later.
I have not been able to find anything on IGI to connect.
I purchased a CD from the FHS that covers marriages but it only goes up to 1796. Was able to find a John Marks married to Ann George 22/10/1793 St Mary's Lambeth. Was not sure if she was the mother of the children as they would have been married 7 years, thought there would have been one child in that time unless she couldnt bear children or she died. Maybe there were other children but I have not found them yet.
Will try and find a CD with deaths, maybe that might help! This family has been a real pain to find. I am very, very grateful for everyones help.

Many thanks
Rose

Don't assume that because John and Martha married as widow(ers) after the birth of Edward, Thomas and Ann, that Martha wasn't the mother of John's children!
My g grandparents married in 1924 - after having 10 children - the first in1901.
All the children had their father's name on birth certificates.
On the marriage certificate, they are stated as bachelor and spinster - but my g grandfather had been married before.
He and his first wife had no children - a possible reason for him to leave her - and at the turn of the 19th century, even more reason. Harsh, but true, and not too unusual.

As divorce was so expensive, he and my g grandmother waited until his first wife died before marrying - a year before my gran married my grandad!

You may even find that Martha was the mother of the eldest child and John wasn't the father!

Hi, I have seen there are a few marriages of John Marks on Ancestry.
I am looking for the mother of John's children. From the thread I have shown he was born abt 1756 Kennington London.

Is there someone that has subs to Ancestry that can look for me please
to see if any of these marriages look possible?

Many thanks
Rose

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1861 England Census about Thomas Marks
Name: Thomas Marks
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Harriet
Gender: Male
Where born: Stockwell, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Stockwell St Michael
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: 29 Ingleton Street

Occupation: Laborer on Road

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 21

Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Marks 59
Harriet Marks 55 - laundress; Ipswich, Suffolk

Rose,

I'm sorry for the delays in answering you. I'm holidaying in New Zealand at the moment & log in when I can.

This looks like Harriet & Rebecca.

1841 England Census about Harriet Hussey
Name: Harriet Hussey
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Female
Where born: Surrey, England (It does have this on the image but perhaps her employee filled in the census form.)
Civil parish: Lambeth
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: Robert Street

Occupation: F.S.

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Brixton
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Harriet Hussey 35
Rebecha Hussey 3

She's working for a John Lackhurst or Luckhurst, coach smith.

Hi Ozi

Yes that is Thomas and his family. Thank you for that information. I knew he married a Harriet Hussey but wasn't aware she was born in Suffolk so that is great to know.

Still haven't found any more on John Marks i.e. his earlier marriage so that I can find Edward and Thomas mother. A few John Marks marriages came up on Ancestry, presume they must be pre 1837 as they do not give a spouse but I do not have subs so cannot get into the information.

Thank you so much for your help, its really appreciated.
Rose

So this is Thomas in 1851?

1851 England Census
Name: Thomas Marks
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1804
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Harriet
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Stockwell St Michael
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: 1 Robert Place, Ingleboro Street

Occupation: labourer

Condition as to marriage:

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 78
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Marks 47
Harriet Marks 44 - Ipswich, Suffolk
Rebecca Marks 13 - Lambeth,

Hi Kath,

Thank you for your last message, I have been looking though my notes and see that John Marks and Martha Smith were both widowed at the time of their marriage in 1826. So I am looking for another marriage prior to this date!!

Many many thanks for your help
Rose

Hi Rose,

You could order the parish records at your nearest LDS Family History Centre (addresses on www.familysearch.org). It only costs a few pounds and they will keep the filmed copies of the records for about a month to give you time to view them.

Kath. x

Hi Kath

You are right that it would be best to see the original parish records but they are in London.at the Met Archives and I cannot get there. I have my granddaughter every day so it will be some time before I can consider
travelling there. I will just have to be frustrated for longer lol

Thank you so much for your help, its greatly appreciated.
Rose

Hi Rose,

He may of course have been married before, but I have found in a few cases that couples got married after the children were born and many years after they started living together.

Your best bet would be to try to look at the original parish records for the baptism of the the children to see if it names the mother.

Kath. x

Sorry Kath,
Missed your ending message about why couldn't Martha be the children's mother. It just seemed strange to me that he was 44 when he had 1st child and then married in 1826. Would not have thought it worth marrying after all those years at the grand age of 70 or maybe there was an advantage for his wife?

Many thanks
Rose

Hi Margaret & Kath,

Yes that's him, he died 3 Clarkes Row, Robert Street,Lambeth.
John and Martha married 1826 so I know that Martha is not the children's mother. His son Thomas is still living with them, he married Harriet
Hussey in 1847.

Is there any chance you can find another marriage earlier? I have looked on IGI but there is no mention of him. At least I know now that John was born in the County of Surrey, something I did not know before.
Many many thanks
Rose

Edward?
1841 census
Clark's Row, Robert St. (something?), Lambeth
William White, 30, labourer
Mary, 25
Edward White, 40, labourer
Edward, 9
Emma, 6
All born in county.

(Just 2 families away from John.)

This is the John Marks living in Lambeth on the 1841 census:-

Name: John Marks
Age: 84
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1757
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: Clark's Row, Robert Street, Brixton (?), Lambeth.

Occupation: Labourer

View Image
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington Second
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:

John Marks 84
Martha Marks 73
Thomas Marks 36
Harry Humphries 20

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 1056; Book: 2; Civil Parish: Lambeth; County: Surrey; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 35; Page: 22; Line: 25; GSU roll: 474653.

Why couldn't Martha be the mother of his children? They may have got married AFTER the children were born.

Kath. x

This one?
1841 census
Clark's Row, Robert St. (something?), Lambeth
John Marks, 84, labourer
Martha, 73
Thomas, 36, labourer
All born in county.

Hi Alan,
I have looked on Family Search but John is not there.

Hi Ozi,
There is a John Marks on 1841 census abt 1757, it could be him as the age fits but I do not have subs on Ancestry.

His children are Thomas abt 1803 and Ann abt 1806.

Thank you
Rose

Have you found him on any census? If not, will you give us his children's names so we can find him.

Ozi.

I have Edward Marks abt 1800. I have no idea where he was born but he died in Brixton 1871. As far as I know he had sibling Thomas and Ann.According to a marriage certificate his father was John Marks. I am thinking John Marks could have been born abt 1756, he died 1847 Kennington, Lambeth
Someone kindly found a marriage of John Marks to Martha Smith 1826 but she would not be the mother of his children.

I would be so grateful if someone could kindly help me.
Many thanks
Rose