Genealogy Chat

I have a gr grandfather who"s mother was unmarried. On his birth cert. its shows his grand parents as the parents, however on the marriage cert. it names a father.......Can this be taken as truth?

short answer ......... NO!


it was common for an illegitimate child to put a "father's" name on the marriage certificate, presumably 'cos it looked better for the other family.


BUT the name is not an indication that that was the actual father.


It might have been in a small number of cases, but it was more likely to be the name of a relative, a friend of the family, or completely made up.


Your only chance might be if you can get a look at the actual parish record of his baptism ........ sometimes vicars made a notation in the margin of the putative father.

OR you might be able to find a bastardy order taken out against the father.




sylvia

I agree with Sylvia...but it COULD be the father.

It would seem that the family were at pains to cover up an illegitimate birth, but sometimes told the truth at a baptism, ...or the vicar had information anyway.

There are many children even today who have no father named on their birth certificate because the parents were unmarried and the father not present at the registration. When the child marrys, they can quite truthfully and openly name their father though.

Gwyn

Thanks Sylvia and Gwyn,
I sort of figured that. I did order in the fiche through our local LDS church however nothing there possibly due to the fact they were non conformists.
Thanks for the feedback always appreciated.

This happened on one of mine who did name her father on her marriage cert. She was given his surname as a middle name on her birth cert too. Plus, I had the family story as well ... but I think it's fairly rare - they often just made the names up.

Jill

Hi Joanne,

Everyone is concentrating on the absent father - but why is the grandmother named as the mother? Are you sure they weren't the parents of a late child?

Odd not to have the real mother on there.

Margaret

not odd at all if the family was trying to hush it up!

Is the surname of the father named the same as his own surname?

In that case, if you know his mother was unmarried, the father named can't be his real father -- unless the real father coincidentally had the same surname, or was a relation.

That's possible. We shouldn't forget that sexual abuse and exploitation were as well known to our ancestors as to us. A child born to an unmarried woman might well have been a product of some form of incest. But it's unlikely the father would be named on the marriage certificate in that case.

If he actually named a father with a surname different from his own, that would be unusual, and would be worth checking out. Did his mother marry after his birth? Or live with a partner?

The "fathers "surname is different. The sons surname is the same as the mother. The mother also had a daughter 3 years earlier and both children are listed as grandchildren of head of household. the head of household and his wife are the ones listed on birth certificate as the parents. Wow that was confusing.

Do you want to give the names in question, and dates and places? They're all dead -- and we've all got 'em in our own trees. ;)

Have you looked for someone by the named father's name in the vicinity / time period?

Do you know whether the daughter married, and whether she named a father, and if so who / was it the same one?

I wouldn't take the name as the truth -- but it might be able to find facts that suggest it was!

The Mother's name was Agnes Rankin born 1825 Northumberland, she never married. Her first child was Elizabeth Rankin born 1850 and her son Thomas was born 1853. Branxton Northumberland. The father named on the marriage cert. was William Lough, Blacksmith. There were two men of that name in the area.

Huh, well it has a scent of verisimilitude to it then! The ring of truth. ;)

I'd put both of them under a magnifying glass and see which one you like for the job.

Maybe the one likely to have left the largest estate? hee hee.

Yes it seems plausible, however very difficult to prove. Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. It would be great if the daughters marriage cert. showed the same man, however it lists her uncle as the father. He was head of household at that time.

William Lough blacksmith.
Are the 2 you found married or single?.
My 3 xgt grandfather never married but fathered 2 children with my 3xgt grandmother.

He died and left a will leaving property and money to my 2 xgt grandfather who was present at his death and executor of his will

Perhaps you can look for the death of William Lough and his will

I have same thing in my tree, my G/grandfather James Baxter b 1869 has no father at birth but has a Robert Collins ( soldier )as father at marrige, i have found more than 1 Robert at right time in right place but cannot tie any of them to James so have given up trying

Julie

The 2 I found appeared not to be married at the time. one was born approx 1828 and in 1851 census was living i Hexam, Bywell northumberland. The other was born 1835 . The only thing I've found on him is the 1881 census where it shows he was married at that time however his first child of that union being born in 1861. I don"t really know how to procede form this point.

If you're obsessed (and aren't we all!) you could look into DNA testing.

You need a male-line descendant. A son of a son of a son, direct from your Son of Lough.

I'm lucky to have a few of them in my line where I suspect a fake father (my mum's father's family, but she has brothers and they have sons), if I ever get around to it. ;)

This is the outfit where the family DNA projects I would be joining are:

http://www.worldfamilies.net/

(I had a long chat with one of the people who started the organization a couple of years ago, with him trying to get me to take on organizing a particular surname project. That didn't work, but I liked him.)

I searched for Lough, but there doesn't seem to be.

If you could find a descendant of your potential Lough(s), you could just do a direct comparison. Starting a project would get you cheaper prices. ;)

http://www.worldfamilies.net/forum/index.php#2

a list of all surname projects at that site.

I googled

lough family dna

and there are some other possibles.

http://www.linkpendium.com/genealogy/USA/sur/surc-L/surc-Lou/sur-Lough/

aha, Low may include Lough. (I was pronouncing it Luff?)

Anyhow, that's for those of us who can't give up. ;)

Thanks EvieBeavie. We do gat a tad obsessed don't we. When you get that extra bit of info it just eggs you on. GREAT FUN