Genealogy Chat

Good afternoon folks, does anyone know, how would you find out a person's date of birth without getting a birth certificate????

I have been trying to get my great great grandfather's birth certificate but I am having no luck. I have his marriage certificate, I have his death certificate I even know where he is buried and who with!!!!

The census records say he was born in Wigan, the Register Office there have done a search for me and cannot find him. So, even though the census record says he was born in Wigan in reality he could have been born anywhere.

I have contacted numerous Register offices and drawn a blank. (After looking at BMD indexes for approx year etc.) Someone found him on Ancestry's WW1 details and I have his reg number etc but it does not give his date of birth or age.

The 1911 census says he was 36yrs old then.
1901 census says 25,
1891 says 15.
1881 says 5.
The death certificate says 58yrs March 1934.

So all that would indicate 1875/86. The marriage certificate in September 1896 says 22.

The marriage certificate tells me who his father is and a search has been done on this information but no match. I am beginning to wonder if he was born with a different name or was "taken in." For example, the first of his siblings was known as Thomas Dean. Again, we had difficulties getting his birth certifate. Wigan could not find him. I then found a burial record for a William Thomas Dean and wigan matched that one with the right family. Yet on all the census records he was known as Thomas.

The one I am searching is for is James Dean... I saw an Ernest James Dean on index but that does not match with the family. I am going around and around in circles. If you had a national insurance number could you get a date of birth from that? and if so how do you get an insurance number? Is there any other way of finding this information out because if I could get the date of birth I could narrow down my search. Any Ideas????
Gill with a big headache x

Have you found him on 1881 census and what does it say on there as birthplace.

It's possible that he gave Wigan as his place of birth when he was older as perhaps he was brought up there. He may well have been born somewhere else and the family moved when he was young.

The 1881 is likely to show what the parents said about his birthplace.

Jill

Hi, the 1881 census says Wigan, aged 5. All the other siblings say Wigan. Yes, it is possible he was born elsewhere. If I just look at my mum's siblings for example, all born Wigan except one which was Nottingham. The fammily moved to Notts temp for mining work. So even though James' siblings are all Wigan I realise he could have been born elsewhere. Mine field...
Gill

Gillian, a tip - please break up your notes into paragraphs. Many of us are of an age where this sort of block of type is just not intelligible.

Sorry Heather,

I've edited the post, hope it is easier to read.

Gill

Quick thought. If you have him on the 1881 census when he was 5, then hopefully he was with both parents. If so, try finding their marriage, as it could be they were married after his birth and he may be under the mother's maiden name.

Another thought. Was he the eldest? If so, it seems a quite common practice for the mother-to-be to return to wherever her folks came from to have the first child.

From his burial record he was buried with his father Thomas and ... Emily, so it is possible that Emily is his mother. I know it is my James in that grave, the address on the record is the same as the one on my mum's birth certificate. I have the marriage certificate for Thomas and Emily 5th Feb 1874 at Warrington. I have the birth certificates for all the other siblings with Thomas and Emily nee Berrow as parents. The first child was born May 1874. James is the second child.
Gill

ps, Emily was from Hereford. Hereford register office has no record of James. I have tried Warrington too.
Gillx

So he's not the James Dean, registered Dec 1875 in Warrington (8c 160) then?

What is his Regiment No from the Ancestry WW1 record? Did anyone look at the images for you?

no, he's not that one or the one in 1876.

His reg number was 3415 5th batt. Manchester Regiment. It should show his wife as Ellen Dean, Stanley Sq, off Platt Lane. I've been led to believe there is no date of birth on there.
Gill x

Hi Gill,


Have you ruled this 1 out;

Births Sep 1875 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dean Male Wigan 8c 118


He may not have been named at the time of registration???



Dee x

Hi Dee,

I had ruled that one out because

Deaths Sep 1875
DEAN Male 0 Wigan 8c 66

Gillx

Oh yes Gil, much better - minor point, but you will get more response if us oldies can read it easily. :)

He must have lied about his age when he joined the Army - no date of birth but his age is given as 33. Going by the 1911 age of 36, he should have been 40/41 when he joined up in 1915.

ah.... didn't know that. 33??? He must've thought he would be too old. How interesting. mmm

Gill x

Hi Gillian,
have you looked at the Lancs. BMD site

there are a couple of james Dean on there for 1875/6. not wigan itself but the district (pemberton) . Many people say wigan when they really mean a district-------especially if they moved to town later.

basman

Hi Basman, yep, tried all that. Wigan Register Office were very kind. They checked all the entries. To add to the confusion, there was a family in City Rd Pemberton with son James and father Thomas but the register office said it was not a match. He is a little bugger!!!!
Ta Gill

Registration didn't become compulsory until 1875 and I would imagine that there were still people who didn't bother even after this date. Perhaps his birth was not registered.

Kath. x