Genealogy Chat

Trying to find the birth record of

PATIENCE NICHOLLS

in Deptford about 1886

Can anyone find it please?

Thanks

Sue

Have you looked on freebmd?

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/

freebmd and ancestry comes up with a couple but birth place wrong :-((

Sue

1891 England Census
about Patience Nicholls
Name: Patience Nicholls
[Patience Bradshaw]
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Deptford

Civil Parish: St Paul Deptford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
Town: Deptford
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Greenwich
Sub registration district: St Paul Deptford
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James Nicholls 45
Ann Nicholls 44
Phoebe Nicholls 18
Priscilla Nicholls 15
Ann Nicholls 11
Reuben Nicholls 8
Patience Nicholls 5
Rosetta J Bradshaw 39
Henry Nicholls 15
Florence Nicholls 10
Eliza Nicholls 5

Is this her?

Hi Helen

That's her. Just started OH's tree and as she is an immediate rellie I would like to order her birth cert.

Thanks

Sue

Hi Sue

I have had a good look and can't see it, I even look for Reuben to see if that would narrow it dowm but couldn't find him either

Julie

Thanks Julie,

It's irritating. There was a rumour that quite a few births weren't registered but I am hoping to be proved wrong.

Sue

Have you found any of them in 1881? Danged if I can.

I'm suspecting a merged household, with (some of) the children being stepchildren to James.

The only Patience registered in Greenwich district in the time period was:

Births Mar 1886
HILLS Patience Amelia Greenwich 1d 1138a

Hi Evie,

We are both danged then...lol

No I don't have her father in 1881 yet.

Thanks for looking, all suggestions welcome.

Sie

Hi Angie,

Yes I saw that too. She's being so elusive and I really want to tie her down (and throttle her) before I progress any further backwards.

Sue

Who ever transcribed the 1891 made a serious B****s up if you ask me


James Nicholls
[James Bradshaw]
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Mother's Name: Rosetta J
Gender: Male
Where born: Brighton

Civil Parish: St Paul Deptford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
Town: Deptford
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Greenwich
Sub registration district: St Paul Deptford
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Nicholls 45
Ann Nicholls 44
Phoebe Nicholls 18
Priscilla Nicholls 15
Ann Nicholls 11
Reuben Nicholls 8
Patience Nicholls 5

looking at the image...the above are Nicholls, & the belows are Bradshaw


Rosetta J Bradshaw 39
Henry Nicholls 15
Florence Nicholls 10
Eliza Nicholls 5
_____________

This is the attached correction

on the census the nicholls were living in one house and the bradshaws in the next.for some reason it is down that they are also known as bradshaw.this is not correct , they are not even related.the only thing in common is james nicholls mothers name. could you please remove this from the records as this is my fathers immediate family and would like it corrected.many thanks

Sue

Do you know if they were Gypsies

What happened to that household is endemic to the censuses at Ancestry, and especially the 1891.

Whenever a woman came first in a household and was identified as "wife" -- the husband was not present on census night -- she and her children were assigned to the nearest preceding male head of household as his spare wife and children.

My gr-grfather has a spare wife and kids in 1891. No relation. Different address. Different household schedule number. Double lines between the households. Different NAME. But no matter to Ancestry. My gr-grfather, call him Joe Blow, now has wives Annie Blow and Elizabeth Blow, and Elizabeth's children.

On the other side of my family, my grandmother's sister's eventual husband has a spare mother and siblings, because the neighbour lady's husband wasn't to home and she and her kids were assigned to his father.

In port towns, I've seen men with three wives, because many neighbouring men were on vessels on census night.

That the software would even allow such atrocities is inexplicable. Until we remember ... Ancestry is Mormons ...

What happened in the Nicholls household is that there is a Bradshaw household next door. The widowed Ms. Bradshaw is identified as "mother" (to her three minor children, all surnames "ditto" to Bradshaw, obviously).

Ancestry has assigned her to James Nicholls as his mother, and has assigned her children, identified as son and daughter, to him.

An Ancestry user who is related to the Bradshaws has come along and corrected the three Bradshaw children's surname, as being a mistranscription.

Then comes the next problem. Enter a new surname for any member of a household, and Ancestry smears it around to all other members of the household.

The Bradshaws are of course in a different household, but Ancestry has called them the same household as the Nicholls. So the automated fixer applied the name Bradshaw to the Nicholls, thus compounding the fool problem it had created itself in the first place.

Took me a while to figure this out. I now often spend a half hour sorting through the households on a page I've run across, restoring the identities of women and their children so maybe their descendants can find them some day. I occasionally hear from Ancestry users who have done just that!

Oh -- the trick, when doing this, is to be sure to call the surname you add a "birth surname". That is the only instance in which Ancestry doesn't apply it to everybody else in the household. So I give married women whose husbands are absent a "birth surname" and point out in the notes that it is really their married surname ............


Anyhow, the upshot is that you can just ignore the Bradshaw nonsense. Or do what I've done in some cases -- enter a correction saying "NOT Bradshaw" for the surname. ;)

Julie yes they were gypsies as far as we know.

x


Evie

Thanks for that long reply. I understand what you have said about the three 'bottom' children. As you say they are at a different address.
Doesn't make life easy does it?

Sue

We have this coming up on the IGI

Patience Nichols Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 31 JAN 1888

Christening: 19 FEB 1888 St Pauls, Deptford, Kent, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: James Nichols Family
Mother: Ann


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C013168 Film


Sheet:

Sue, i though they might of been....I have one of my familys that i can't find any births for
xx

If this is Priscilla...Elizabeth might be their too

PRISCILLA NICHOLLS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 12 SEP 1875 Horsmonden, Kent, England

ELIZABETH NICHOLS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 25 SEP 1870 Horsmonden, Kent, England

Thank you Julie (I am so glad I picked you up lol)

That is wonderful, I'll trundle off and check now.

GR is brilliant! Well Tips is :-))

Sue

So am i Sue seeing as the thread has gone...who know where i would of ended up lol

Just wish we could find them on the 1881 & 71

TC xx