Genealogy Chat

Hello all,

After doing a fair bit of emailing and letter writing, I've found some information about my grandad's family which I'm keen to explore.

Basically, my great grandmother was one of at least 13 children, and I have been told that there were lots which died as children in addition. I would love to find out their names, as I think it's sad nobody knows them anymore.

I've been told on good authority that twins were born and died in infancy, and also that a child died after drowning in a swimming pool.

Can anyone suggest the best way of exploring this? I've trawled through the birth and death indexes and have a long list of possible children, but need to narrow it down. If twins were born, would the references in the index be the same or one after the other?

In case anyone is interested, the family I am researching is the Nevilles, who lived in Shoreditch until around 1903, and then moved to Edmonton. The children I know of who survived infancy are: Henry Charles (1898), Ellen Emily (1899), Alice Harriet (1901), Elizabeth (1904), Catherine Sarah (1906), Mary (1907), Annie (1908), Norah (1913), Agnes (1914), and Alfred (1919). That means there are at least 3 other children to find...The mother's maiden name is Butler by the way, in case that helps!

Thanks! :-)

I would look for baptisms of the known children then trawl through the baptisms and burials for that family name in the same parish.
You might find a few children that way.

If you search deaths in Edmonton area on freebmd, several children are listed.

Gwyn

These are births in Edmonton between 1906 until MMN were added.


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Neville Catherine Sarah Edmonton 3a 638
Neville Jennie Ada Edmonton 3a 597

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Births Jun 1906 (>99%)
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Neville Ivy Edmonton 3a 450

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Births Sep 1906 (>99%)
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Neville John Bettelley Edmonton 3a 643

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Births Mar 1907 (>99%)
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NEVILLE Hilda Irene Edmonton 3a 560
NEVILLE Mary Edmonton 3a 656

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Births Jun 1907 (>99%)
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NEVILLE Alonzo Edmonton 3a 551
NEVILLE Arthur Edmonton 3a 508
NEVILLE Jessie Edmonton 3a 606
NEVILLE Samuel John Edmonton 3a 669

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Births Jun 1908 (>99%)
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Neville Annie Edmonton 3a 710
Neville Hilda Florence Edmonton 3a 678

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Births Dec 1908 (>99%)
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Neville Henrietta Pierre Le G Edmonton 3a 504

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Births Mar 1909 (>99%)
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Neville Leonard Frank C Edmonton 3a 588

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Births Jun 1910 (>99%)
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NEVILLE Charles Walter Edmonton 3a 671
NEVILLE James Henry Edmonton 3a 645
NEVILLE Mary May Edmonton 3a 692

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Births Mar 1911 (>99%)
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Neville Ida D Edmonton 3a 609

Obviously a few Neville families in the area.

You can do the same search for deaths and then compare.

Christine

You could check on freebmd. There are 7 childre called Neville that died between 1896 and 1903 in Shoreditch. Does the name Garside have any link to you as there appear to be 4 children with Garside as a middle name who died 1st Qtr 1896.

There are 11 Neville children who die in Edmonton between Sept 1903 and 1920. Dad wouldn't have been William G who died December Qtr 1918 by any chance?

OK so it took me longer than you lot!

Thanks guys,

I thought the easiest thing might be to find the twins, but that's proving hard too. The only records I can find that look likely are:

Clara Garside Neville - 1894 Q3 Shoreditch 1c 40
Ellen Garside Neville - 1894 Q3 Shoreditch 1c 40

who both died 2 years later along with a brother and a sister (Florence and Frederick) - these are the "Garsides" others have mentioned. Unfortunately I have no record of that name in my tree.

(but this was before the parent's marriage)

and

Mabel - 1895 - Q4 - Shoreditch - 1c 34
William - 1895 - Q4 - Shoreditch - 1c 34

however for these I can find no evidence of their deaths.

Hmm!

Given the dates that you have, there are gaps that give posibilities for other births. They are before 1898 (When were the parents married ?)
1910-1911, 1915-1917 or after 1919 (how old was the mother ?)
So that narrows down your search a little.
The drowning death would probably have been reported in a local if not National newspaper.
Are there records of burials in near-by cemeteries ?
The death of the twins might have been days, weeks, months or even years apart so don't get tied up with that.
Just a few avenues to explore
Dave

If one of the twins was stillborn only the surviving twin would have been registered (Stillbirths did not have to be registered until 1927 and then only if the gestation is more than 28 weeks) So you can't dispense with a singleton birth.

Is there a possibility that your great grandmothers father was married twice?........ 1st to the lady who had the "Garside" children and then to Ms. Butler?.... Do you have the marriage cert.? Is Mr. Neville a widower on that.?


Nicky

EDIT..... Scrap that idea....just had a look at the 1901 census, the father Alfred W is only 24.......probably a little young to be having children in 1890.!!

Here's one:

Births Sep 1902
Neville Albert Edward Shoreditch 1c 37


Deaths Sep 1903
Neville Albert Edward 1 Edmonton 3a 222

Rose

I know there were definitely other births, they married in 1894.

After trawling the indexes I've come up with 9 children who died in infancy:

Alfred Henry - 1894 Q4 Shoreditch 1c 60a - Death 1896 Q4 Shoreditch 1c 92
Jessie Ada - 1895 Q1 - Shoreditch - 1c 106. Died 1895 Q2 - Shoreditch 1c 96
Frederick James G - 1895 - Q3 - Shoreditch - 1c 58. Died 1896 Q1 - Shoreditch 1c 53
Margaret Mary A - 1896 - Q3 - Shoreditch 1c 52 - Died 1897 Q3 Shoreditch 1c 55
Edward Daniel G - 1901 Q3 Shoreditch 1c 23 - Died 1901 Q4 Shoreditch 2c 57
Albert Edward 1902 Q3 Shoreditch 1c 37 - Died 1903 Q3 Edmonton 3a 222
Frederick - 1903 Q4 Shoreditch 1c 47 - Death 1904 Q1 Shoreditch 1c 90
William - 1904 Q3 Edmonton 3a 48 - Died 1904 Q3 Edmonton 3a 241
Ivy - 1906 Q2 Edmonton 3a 450 - Died 1906 Q2 Edmonton 3a 187

and then the Garside Nevilles. However, having googled it and looked on Ancestry, it seems the Garside Neville family were quite prolific and I think I would have had one or two in my tree by now if there was a link. I'm not ruling it out though.

In your opinions, which certificates would you order? I think the child born in Shoreditch who died in Edmonton might be a good bet?

They were knocking them out almost every year. Write out all the dates they were born and work out where some could be missing.

I fancy Albert Edward and Ivy D.

Rose

Marriages Jun 1894
Neville Alfred Bethnal G 1c 388
Butler Mary Ann Bethnal G. 1c 388

Rose

Looks like Mary Ann got a break because Alfred went to war?

Rose

Thanks Rose that is indeed their marriage!

I'm not sure about Alfred's war record but it does seem a likely reason for the gap.

I have the email address of a lovely lady at Edmonton council who's helped me before with burials there so I might drop her a line tomorrow and see if she can look up a couple of names for me and see if it gives us any clues :-)

Also look at family names they might have used.

Rose

Jessie Ada and Margaret Mary A?

Rose

Thanks guys, I've ordered Margaret Mary A's birth certificate. With any luck it'll come back positive :-)

Just a shame it's £7 a pop!

Thanks for that Gemma. I've received the one that I ordered - Margaret Mary Ann born in 1896 - and it's a match! :-) It's payday on Friday so I might order a couple more!

Thanks for all of your help.

Thanks for the update Amy.

Rose