Genealogy Chat

Hi Diane............have found Sarah Ann gerrard's parentage...I suggested earlier that her marriage to Samuel was her second marriage..and was looking for her first...NOT SO!!..Her three children were illegitimate!!!!

SARAH ANN GERRARD wasbaptised at Bradbourne 18.09.1859 the daughter of Samuel Gerrard and Sarah(nee Ensor who were married at Ballidon)..she is on Census 1861.1871.1881..lastly as sister of George and John....and aunt of three children Wilfred. Charlie and Ada
Gerorge Garrard was born 1853 and John 1856 Srah Ann 1859.
Samuel blackwell married sarah ann Gerrard (spinster!!!) 12.06.1892

Derek x

Hi Derek and Dianne,I have made some headway with your Samuel Blackwell. His parents seem to be George Blackwell c1811 Parwich,
and Ann Endsor 1818 Brassington.

I found Samuel in 1881 with his first wife Hannahc1850 b Brassington and 3 kids,Mary 7, Ann 5 and Samuel 3.

1901 with wife Sara Ann Gerrard,and kids Elsie Emma,7, Pamela,3 John William 1mth and grandson, Earnest Arther Blackwell,5.

I don't seem to be able to connect this family of Blackwells to my Eyam ones,but Derek, if you have older records,perhaps you can trace George further back.

Will delve a bit more, love Nina

Annina....you're right about samual Blackwell';s parents..but I did offer that inof soem four messages back!!lol

Well bu........blow me, so you did,2 hrs wasted, that's what looking after a post-op husband does for you, I am going doolally.

Still, nice to know I'm correct, i'm getting better at this.

Hello again Derek, Can you sort me out before the men in white coats come for me???????

I have John Hall Bap. 20/04/1760 who Married Ellen Kinder of Ketteshulme. Source Taxal Parish Records. I am happy that is correct.

Now my problem starts.

John's father is listed as Henry. I have traced a Henry Hall, Bap. in Chapel 28/02/1718 son of Henry , Source Chapel en le Frith Parish Records. He also had a sister Alice Bap. 14/04/1717 If this is correct it would be brilliant, as I have found both parents. Henry and Mary bap 9/12/1698.

If the above is correct, it would mean he was around 42 years old when he had John. I am none too happy with the age gap. Or in your experience would that be normal.

I have a second Henry. This one born or Bap 20/06/1731 in St Oswald Ashbourne. Also son of Henry. So now I am stuck!!!

Part of me wants it to be the 1st Henry, but, I don't want to bend the facts to fit . Can you please confirm if possible, if either of them is correct. Or worse tell me I'm totally barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks Derek,

Hello Diane and Annina....GREAT NEWS..I have been able to put together the complete Blackwell Gerrard Saga..probably one of my best efforts yet!!!

Was a bit difficult to sort out becasue althought I have the full Bradbourne and Lea Hall Censuses i was thrown by the fact that in 1861 SAMUEL GERRARD 1822-1889 (died 26.03.1889) was living on his own at Lea Hall even though married to SARAH..........

Ok.. JOHN ENSOR 10.09.1794 of Bradbourne married Hannah BLORE b. 1795 in Stockport Cheshire..they married 19.11.1817

They had SIX children beginning with SARAH ENSOR 1820 at Ballidon (she died 1886.)
followed by five others.
SAMUEL GERRARD and SARAH ENSOR had FOUR children the youngest of which was SARAH ANN GERRARD b.1860 Bradbourne
Sarah Ann had three illegitimate childrenbetween 1881 and 1889..father unknown

more later x

OK......to continue from the posting below......through one of the two illegitimate sons of Sarah Ann Gerrard..the Gerrard family can be traced down to living relatives............

Now to SAMUEL BLACKWELL........I think any link to EYAM is way back and peripheral...or just a coincidence...

GEORGE BLACKWELL 1811 married ANN from Kniveton b.1815 ( I can give you details later because i have the Kniveton Records)

They had FIVE children of which SAMUEL 1850 was the youngest..

as you know he married Hannah and had three children with her before later marrying Sarah Ann gerrard.
If you need further details of children in order to boost your family tree just shout!!
Edit 14.12..you're going to love this!! No telly in those days:
GEORGE BLACKWELL father of Sanuel was born 23.03.1810 illegitimate son of Jane..at Parwich
His wife ANN BLORE was born at Kniveton 03.09.1815..the illegitimate daughter of Hannah (born 1784) !!! and she brought an illegitimate son JOHN b 1840 to the marriage!!
Heehee...
Derek

Hello Joan..can pretty well confirm all your data from Chapel-en-le Frith..John was indeed the son of Henry son of John.

I wouldn't bother too much about his age.......my own GGG Grandfather born 1757..married my GGG Grandmother in 1802.and went on to sire TEN children by her..three of which died in their first year, and one of whose graves i still tend at Ashford in the Water......befroe he died in 1825.

Because of the age i have long suspected it was his second marriage..which might be the case for John Hall.......

It's always difficult to cross reference up in the High Peak..you're never quite sure which is Derbys and which is Staffs..Taxal Whaley Bridge Kettleshulme are but a (long!!) stone';s throw from Chapel

Take care

Derek

My good gracious, the 1800's certainly were a promiscuous, and very forgiving generation weren't they?? And no wonder there were so many "secrets" from little children. Very, very hard to unravel, but you've done a great job Derek. Interesting that you have Samuel Gerrard living alone at Lea Hall in 1881. I have him living with his family - a miller of corn in 1881. Wonder where the discrepancy lies on that one??

He sure is an elusive character, isn't he? Wondering - do they have birth ceertifcates back that far?? My brain seems to remember 1837 as a cut off, but ..........

Once I finish with the paint fumes muzzing up my brain, will start a full blown search for his parentage.

Thanks Derek, another great job!
Diane

Thanks Derek, I'm getting excited now.

I have traced Chapels Henry Bap 1717 Parents, another Henry, so am well on my way again. Thank you so much, I just wish all those dads didn't name one of their sons with the same name as themselves.

Thanks again. You are a gem xx

Diane..the discrepancy lies in that I was looking at 1861 not 1881

In 1861 Samuel is the sole occupier of "The bank" aged 39..a Journeyman Miller.......clearly away from his family learning his trade......don't forget this was on the night of the Census...which means that he could well live normally at home with his wife and family

On the same night:
at Bradbourne Mill:

Mary Gerard 70 widow Farmer and Miller head of household.
Her son Joseph 38 Miller
Daughter Mary 37
daughter Judith 38
Daughter in law Hannah..

and her children Samuel and catherine.

sorry to misinform you

Derek

No need to apologize Derek - it was me that was wrong. Again, I'll blame the paint fumes!!! You did say 1861 in the previous post.

But great for you, as that actually fits in with my research, as Sarah, his wife, and three of their children were visiting a family called "the Taylors" on that night, with Samuel not with them. So it's great you found him!

And your info on Mary Gerrard is most welcome, and I have done all the looking up to see how that family all fleshes out, but how can we be sure that she is his mother?

The one son Joseph fits with a possible father's name of Joseph, but the bible death date of 26 Mar 87 doesn't fit with Mary's "widow" dates on the censuses.

Maybe on our trip, we can suss out the churchyards and look for info on the stones - and confirm the info in my cousin's family bible.

Many, many thanks, Derek and cheers,
Diane

Hi Derek, I bet you dread my question.LOL. This time not a Measham.

Can you see if you can find any information on Sarah Dalby born 1786 Shardlow. I know she had a son Francis (unknown father) but that is all.

Hi Gooner...........I don't have records for Shardlow........but i do have a SARAH DALBY baptised Ockbrook 09.11.1783 daughter of John Johnston Dalby and his wife Catherine(Bentley)

Sarah had a son.............FRANCIS KINSEY PEGG..1831-1884

Without going to matlock.that's all i can tell you.....

(Arsenal 2 Manchester United 1) lol

Derek

Thanks for the records and the predicted score LOL. Definately right one makes a change from Meashams doesn't it ? LOL

Hello Derek

Is it possible you have any burial records, I have found what I think is the death of my grt, grt grandfather William Chapman who is listed on June qrt 1891 at Chesterfield age 70, also Frances Bartendale Chapman his wife died Mar qrt 1899 age 71 reg.at Chesterfield.

Thanks for your offer of help.

Frances

Hello Frances...this has been a bit difficult because I don't have the burial records beyond 1860. However, I do visit Matlock Records Office quite frequently, and am due a visit.

I am almost certain they were buried at ECKINGTON near Chesterfield becasue that is whre they were living in 1891.

Was made a little difficult becasue they are both from areas of Sheffield in South Yorkshire..for which i don't have any records....

Until shortly after 1871 they were living in Ecclesfield Sheffield with teo children JAMES b 1850 and EMILY b 1856..there was another child born 1848 FANNY E who does not appear to have survived very long.

By 1881 they are at White Lane Eckington Chesterfield, and still there 1891.
William was a 2Knife cutter"

That's all i can tell you right now..but will get back to you.

All the best Derek

Derek thanks a million for that info, you have just reminded me to look through my paperwork and I've found a copy death cert for a Frances Chapman (sent by somebody who had got wrong one) it shows that the death was registered by Robt J Barradell Master of Chesterfield Union Workhouse, shows Frances Chapman was charwoman of Eckington age 71, cant make out cause of death looks like Sene ***. Almost certainly my Grt Grt Grandmother.
Cant believe I've had this in my file since 2005 dohhh.

Any further info you may find will be appreciated.

Thank you a blue peter badge for you.

Frances x

PS I do have marriage cert. for William and Frances at Parish Church Ecclesfield 1845 and 1851 census shows son James born in Manchester and they obviously moved back over the hills.
James must have moved back to Manchester because in 1869 he marries a Sarah Ann Peake and is in Ancoats, never been able to find him on 1871 census though oops sorry this is becoming a tome.

Hi Derek, have finally had some time to "play". Found a Joseph Gerrard in Brailsford on the 41 census. He's aged 55 and is a miller. That info and also a found death date of 1846, fit into your scenario. Wonder if that's why he was not "home" then with Mary and family in 41.. The death would also fit into the census info you found of Mary being a widow in 51. But try as I might, I cannot come up with a marriage for these two, nor proof of Samuel being a part of the family. I'm wondering if the bible death date was for the son Joseph, b 1820? Will research more tomorrow .... going off to bed ... the eyes are crossing!!

Diane

Hi Diane..just in case you're interested i have acquired a very nice print-out of the PARWICH Censuses from 1841-1901..makes very interesting reading for students of the Blackwells......

Can't remember if i sent you this before but here goes.

A couple of Memorial Inscriptions at Parwich Graveyard

WILLIAM GERRARD 30.01.1888 aged 95
and his wife ELLEN 25.01.1883 aged 80

RICHARD BLACKWELL 21.11.1925 aged 84

and his wife ELIZABETH 30.10.1918
WILLIAM there son 24.02.1885 and ABEL their son 21.01.1897 aged 7

One of the families of Blackwells everpresent in most of the Censuses

ABRAHAM and his family are the other Derek