Genealogy Chat

Hi Nicky,

The plot thickens!!

Esther's birth was registered by Marion McFarquhar (Mother) and in the name it does say Marion McFarquhar formerly Chambers.

I have a death for James McFarquhar in St Pancras in 1924 but nothing for Marion. Then I found one in 1918 in Birmingham (Len said Etty was from Birmingham!!) but I have absolutley no idea if it is the same person!!

I am starting to get confused with it all. Will have to print out all the Spiers census that we have found and get it all straight in my head:)

Thanks again

Dawn

Dawn....just been looking at freebmd again {this is bugging me}.....checked birth records for all the 4 children who appear on 1891and 1901 census

Evelyn ,Arthur, Violet and Hetty ......there is NO birth reg. for Eveline and Arthur under the name Spiers.....there is a possibility for Violet in St. Saviour in Dec. 1887, and there is a Hetty Spiers that I told you about earlier registered in Hackney.....but all 4 are there under the name Mcfarquhar and registered in Pancras, which points more strongly to the parents having different surnames as I suggested earlier.....did James register your gr grandmothers birth? and does the cert. actually say Marion Mcfarquhar formerley Chambers under mothers name surname and maiden name? Also I notice Violet born c1888 isn`t with the family in 1901...may be worth trying to track her down,if shes with grandparents or other relatives it may fill in some of the blanks.

Nicky

PS there is also a marriage for Evelyn Mcfarquhar in 1908 in Pancras on freebmd,

Lol:)

After reading it a couple of times it does make sense. I'm glad you love a mystery Nicky because this one is starting to do my head in (again!). I remember why I put it to bed when I couldn't find the answer three years ago!!

I just wish it was local to me and I could try and find a parish register, but as I live up north there is no chance of that anytime soon:(

I do think I need to order the birth certificate for Evelyn McFarquhar and maybe take it from there.

I have what I believe to be the census reports for James in 1861 and 1871 but nothing after!!!

All the best and thanks for your help

Dawn

Despite finding what could be the birth reg for the Mary/Marion in the 3 census above, I can`t find a marraige for her ...to either a Spiers or Mcfarquhar....beginning to wonder if they never married {James Mcfarquhar and Mary/Marion} but maybe shed been married before to a James Spiers, James Spiers then died {or she left him }sometime after the 1891 census and she gets together with James Mcfarquhar and has your gr grandmother Esther, she gets registered as a Mcfarquhar on the cert., and under mothers maiden name it says Chambers, which is technically correct....then when the enumerator comes round in 1901 she gives the details in her name Spiers, as she hasn`t married James Mcfarquhar, so the enumerator automatically puts him down as a Spiers as well., ................

Reading it back it all seems a bit far fetched.... but plausable.....the only fly in the ointment is Hetty Spiers born 1894 the same year as your great Grandmother...who is she? where does she fit in....or is there another Hetty spiers on the 1901? I don`t have ancestry at the moment ,but maybe someone else following this thread could take a look, if there is another Hetty Spiers, apart from the one above, this could be a reasonable explanation.

Hope I hav`nt complicated things more for you, but I do love a mystery.......lol

Nicky

Hi Bobtail,

I have an address from Esther's birth certificate which has the McFarquhar's living at 66 Stibbington Street, Somers Town, Pancras.

I've just had a quick look at my old map of the area and this was about three or four streets away from where the "Spiers" live in 1901!!

This is interesting Nicky,

I believe that is my James as it matches what I already have. However, I never found a birth for Marion Chambers. I wonder if Mary Ann was her real name and she used Marion??

But with no marriage certificate how would I ever prove it?

Thanks

Dawn

The mystery deepens.... I have found a James Mcfarquhar birth in Pancras in 1852.....and this.....


Births Mar 1853 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Chambers Mary Ann Biggleswade 3b 344




Nicky

Yes Nicky I think you are right that they are a completely different family.

I have no census for James and Marion in 1881 or 1891 or in fact a marriage for them.

I believe Eve was an older sister and there is a birth in St Pancras for Evelyn Jessie (i think it is) in about 1885, but I haven't ordered her birth cert yet (this can be a very expensive hobby!!)

The birth you found for Esther Lilian is my G grandmother and I have that certificate. On her birth cert James was a carman and on her marriage cert he was a coal porter.

Do you have James Mcfarquar or Marion Chambers in any earlier census, with parents? do you know if sister Eve was older or younger than Esther? This really is very strange, as you say everything matches but the 2 birth regs I just posted I think confirm that the Spiers are a totally different family....what do you think.



Nicky

Dawn, have just done a check on freebmd and found these birth regs.

Mar 1894 Hetty Amelia Spiers ..Hackney

Dec 1894 Esther Lilian Mcfarquar...Pancras.


I presume the latter is your gr grandmother.


Nicky

Thanks Nicky,

So do we think it is a completely different family and just a coinsidence that everything seemed to match:(

If so - where on earth are my McFarquhar's! LOL

Think this is them in 1881....


Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James SPIRES Head M Male 28 Pancras, Middlesex, England Carman
Mary SPIRES Wife Female 28 Biggleswade, Bedford, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 122 Pratt Street
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341046
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0208 / 9
Page Number 11



Nicky

How are you doing?? Hope you are keeping well:)

I have been rather busy but I had an operation on my knee nearly three weeks ago so I am laid up, and making the most of my time by catching up on my Family History stuff - Hence me reviewing my old files!!

It does look as if that is the same family doesn't it.

It is such a puzzle and has not been helped by any family members. Before he passed away my Great Uncle told me that Etty (his Mum) was from Scotland - which completely threw me for a while until I found her birth certificate in London - just a few streets away from his Dad.

I have also been unable to find them in 1881 or 1891 and as of yet have no marriage for James McFarquhar and Marion Chambers, but I am keeping looking:)

Hi Dawn,

Yes we did meet in Bridlington. Thought I had not seen you on the boards recently.

1891 poss the same family

Name: Evelyn Spers
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: St Pancras, London, England

Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michaels
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Pancras
Sub registration district: Camden Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Evelyn Spers 5
James Spers 41
Mary Spers 38
Violet Spers 2

Yes that is the family I thought might be them:)

Hi Glitter baby

Was it you that I met in Brid for The Gaynor Bear Rally a few years ago?

I hadn't thought of that to rule them out. I shall look now.

All the best

Dawn

1901 is this the family you are looking at?

Name: Hotty Spiers
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Marion
Gender: Female
Where born: St Pancras, London, England

Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Somers Town
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: St Pancras
Sub registration district: Somers Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 423
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Spiers 9
Evelyn Spiers 15 St Pancras
Hotty Spiers 6
James Spiers 52 coal porter, St Pancras
Marion Spiers 48 Biggleswade

1901 is on National Achives - free search but you need credits to view the results.

Have you found the Spiers family on any earlier census to rule them out

For the past three years I have been looking for my Great Grandmother on the 1901 census, with absolutely no luck.

She was called Esther McFarquhar (Etty) and I know from her birth cert she was born in 1894 and her parents were James and Marion. I believe (though no proof yet) she had a sister called Eve. She was born in Somers Town, St Pancras, London.

I have only been using Ancestry for the census reports, which I pay the monthly subscription for - are these complete? Would I find any different results from using a different site like Find My Past?

I have now found a family which I believe may be them but the surname is Spiers!! The names all match, as do the ages, her Father's occupation (which matches her marriage certificate) and the area, but having looked at the original I don't think it is an error in transcribing. I don't even think it could have been down to an accent - there is a big difference between SPIERS and MCFARQUHAR.

Does anyone have any suggestions how I can solve this problem?

Many Thanks in advance

Dawn