Genealogy Chat

nudge

Hi Elizabeth
This is interesting
Is it possible with all your other puzzle pieces that the family Andy found is your Agnes family rather than the other one.
I think I would buy the cert for Agnes Hesketh and George Southern it may help unravel some of it
Regards Tania

... and there is also this death:

Name: Agnes Hesketh
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Year of Registration: 1870
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 25
District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 380

I have found this family in 1851 father's name is Wm and not M and he is a publican

Agnes Hesketh
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: M
Mother's Name: Elizh
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 1tt
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Elizth Hamilton 18
Agnes Hesketh 11
Elizh Hesketh 32
Ellen Hesketh 6
M Hesketh 34
Mary A Hesketh 9
Margt Hunter 18
Elizth Wilson 24

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2177; Folio: 277; Page: 6; GSU roll: 87172-87174.

Andy

that is a bit of a problem then,I had hoped it was the same name and occupation.
So there must be another marriage there somewhere?
Its a bit of a puzzle all right
Regards Tania

Ivy

sorry Ivy i am getting myself confused .in 1881 census they lived

in 1881 census lived 75 dale street walton on the hill lancashire.pro RG11/2687 folio 22 page 38.

this was before my william was born .He was born 18 lampeter road west derby .(cert) on 27/03/1882 .

i have been unable to find them in 1891 census (my other thread)

in 1901 census lived 4 marsden villa's birkenhead.no other children for william henry norman and agnes hesketh/southern apart from Flora norman who appears to have been born before they married.

i live in london so am unable to check the records office in liverpool before i go buying all certificates .

thanks foir your help

regards
lizz

hi Lizz,

I looked up 18 Lampeter Rd for 1891 (having seen your other thread), but the two families there then were headed by Wm and Mary Clifton and Thomas and Clara Smith.

Tania and Mgnv

from census return i have father as Robert Hesketh (1802) and Amelia Doyle (1807) who married 03 SEP 1827 Saint George, Everton, Lancashire, England ( igi) .they had the following children according to census returns and igi

robert hesketh 1825
mary hesketh 1829
henry hesketh 1832-1899
amelia hesketh 1834-1899
alice hesketh 1838
ann hesketh 1840- 1906
agnes hesketh 1842-1907
stephen hesketh 1845-1846
louisa hesketh 1848-1887

and here is were they lived in census returns

in 1841 census lived rathbone street liverpool lancashire.pro HO107/565 folio 14 page 22.

in 1851 census lived 26 hill street liverpool lancashire.pro HO107/2186 folio 84 page 4.

in 1861 census lived 162 crown street liverpool lancashire.pro RG9/2683 folio 86 page 6.

many thanks for your help thus far ,and i hope i can get to the bottom of this.

regards
lizz

Hi elizabeth.
The pieces of your puzzle look good to me.
All those records were hand written,what if someone was a bit careless and didnt ask Agnes fathers surname but just assumed it was southern because hers was..
easy mistake really if someone was busy.
Have you checked to see if the 1st name and occupation match for agnes father
Regards Tania

OK, I retract the misrecording hypothesis. I'd assumed that the son had gotten the Hesketh name from his dad, not realizing dad's mid-name was actually Henry.

i don't think it could have misrecorded because at least 5 living descendants have the middle name hesketh .

he was registered as being born in 18 Lampeter road West derby .this is were the family lived in 1901 census ,

i have no choice but to get the other marriage cert.she may have put her father in law as william southern as father . i will have to trace george back.


thanks for your help anyway.

regards
lizz

I think hubby's gg gran was not Agnes Hesketh, but Agnes Southern and that Wm's 1882 birth info was misrecorded.

1881:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Wm. H. NORMAN Head M Male 34 Liverpool Book Keeper
Agnes NORMAN Wife M Female 39 Liverpool Seamstress
Flora Ellen NORMAN Daur Female 4 Liverpool
Source Information:
Dwelling 75 Dane St
Census Place Walton On Hill, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341883
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3687 / 22
Page Number 38

Births Dec 1842 (99%) Southern Agnes Prescot 20 657

What's the address of Wm's 1882 birth?

(The answer to your actual question is that checks were not made.)

hi here is a quick run down of the information i have.

my husbands great grandfather was called william hesketh norman born 1882 liverpool (i have cert) parents william henry norman a clerk and agnes hesketh. I have been unable to find a marriage for agnes hesketh and william norman but was able to find marriage of William norman and agnes southern in 1877 lancashire .and on lancashire bmd a marriage of george southern and agnes heskethin 1865 st mathias liverpool.

i recieved marriage cert this morning of agnes and william but not reading as it should. Agnes down as spinister 35 father william southern a lincensed victualler and william henry norman a clerk father richardnorman a printer.

could agnes still have been married to george at the time of this marriage in order for her to lie or were check made .

regards
lizz