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‘Early’ retirement wouldn’t apply for someone aged 73 in 1965, would it?

However, Florence, if you remain convinced that this man’s is the one born more than twenty years later than his death suggests, it’s your family, and your choice.

As long as you are content with the outcome, that’s all that matters

In the 60’s there were a lot of early retirements in London - getting rid of the 55+’s. My father was mortified when he found a classmate of mine working at the labour exchange - he had to go to ensure he got the stamps paid for his pension.

ErikaH, yes I do agree with you on that.

He was a dealer, ie a "wheeler dealer" so I guess that was self employed. It is possible he didn't get a pension and lived off his own means maybe?

He probably didn't pay tax either ;-) in which case he wouldn't have had enough NI contributions to qualify for a pension maybe? I don't know what the system was back in the mid 1960's

Pure speculation really but somehow he has to be the Jasper in my family.
I will have to wait for the other 2 certs now and see if I can glean anything new to solve the puzzle.

Shall come back once i get the certs and let you know the findings.

If the man was 73 in 1965, he must have been drawing a State Retirement pension. One cannot really think that such a benefit would have been paid without some proof of DoB - and employment history. He must have had a National Insurance number, which again would require DoB.

There isn’t any provision on English death certs ( at least not in that era) for marital status of the deceased, although, strangely, married women who died were recorded as ‘wife of’ etc under ‘Occupation’

Thanks for keeping us informed Florence.

Do hope you will be able to finally prove this one way or another without having to spend too much more.

I know how frustrating it is to order a certificate only to find out it tells you nothing new and then you have the costs and the wait ordering yet another certificate :-( :-(

Fingers crossed for you xx

I finally received the death cert for Jasper Read
DOD 18 October 1965 Age 73!

Died in hospital, Milton Regis of various things:
Toxaemia. Seizures, and something else i cannot make out.

The informant was his daughter B Daynes(Betty) 84 Chalkwell rd, Sittingbourne.
Interestingly, it doesn't say he is a widower! but a retired dealer.

I guess it hasn't given us any new information really.

So I have today ordered the death cert of Ethel M Read(his wife?) as she died before him in 1959. So it may give some other info.

I also ordered the birth cert of one of his daughters Betty read b 1932 just to see who it names as her parents.

So I am no further into working out the problem with his age given. Although it is far fetched, I believe the mix up is because Jaspers mother May was born in 1892/93 and they couldn't read and write and probably were not that educated so his DOB was recorded incorrectly.

Certs are taking ages just now, they must be very busy. I also cant believe the price!! The prices have gone up quite some since its awhile since I last order any.


Florence in the hebrides

Well i have just received details of the ER search i requested:

At 37 mill Street, Sittingbourne

1937 James, Sarah Ann Cooper
1938 James, Sarah Ann Cooper & louis Hartridge

1946 Charles Hammond, Lillian G Heldt & Stanley heldt
1947 As above
1949 lillian G Heldt & stanley heldt

So no trace of The Read family!

Probably moved on during the years we couldn't search. never mind it only cost £10.50 and not £42.00 as was first estimated so not too bad afterall.

Thanks Gwyn

Yes Sophia's mother was born in Ramsgate and there is a large family of Pitchers in that area. I started that research but have left it for now as concentrating on Jasper & the Reads etc.

There is another part of the family where a marriage took place in Folkestone and they also died there.

Many are in & around Shepepy, Sittingbourne, Chatham, Headcorn which are all fairly close.

But ty for your kind offer and if anything crops up, ill message you, very kind of you.

Interesting that there is a long term link with this family to Folkestone.
Dallas Brett Crescent is largely social housing, so there must have been some residential link for them to qualify perhaps even though there were strong links with other areas.

Folkestone is not too far for me to travel, if you want me to investigate anything there.

Alviegal, it wouldn't let me download the death so i had to order the certificate. I did that on 22 Jul. Will wait and see what it reveals.

ArgyllGran, I'm inclined to agree with you that for whatever reason, his age was recorded incorrectly.. There are very few Jaspers around Sittingbourne area.

Shall come back as soon as i get the cert.

For what it's worth, there's no corresponding birth for a Jasper Read born in 1892 or April 1899.

The nearest is a Jasper Gordon Read was born near Thetford, Norfolk in October 1899, who is with his parents William Henry and Annie in 1901. I can't see the family after that - but I'm pretty sure that's not the man in Sittingbourne or Hollingbourne.

The age of the man who died in Sittingbourne must be wrong, whoever he is!

Have you downloaded the death certificate for Jasper Read, Florence? Is there any information on it?

Perhaps the Jasper living at Mill Street with all the children is not YOUR Jasper. I'm hoping it is but there is such a huge discrepancy between years of birth.

I've been looking at William Edwin Mercer to see if there are any clues there but all I've found is his wife Nora Margaret lived in Mill St in 1951 and got a maintenance order against her husband who lived at Dalles Brett Crescent, Folkestone. The son mentioned was Albert Ernest born 1932 and they lived in Knightsfield Rd, Milton in 1956.

I'm working on the kids of Jasper Read etc and have just discovered that one of his children had 7 kids(grandchildren) which included 2 sets of twins!
These are all my 3rd cousins!

So just when you think you have nearly finished a branch, a few more twigs start growing lol

Yes I agree ErikaH, it does seem far fetched but the rest of the info does fit in with everything. His mother was born around then so maybe a mistake?

Unfortunately, I sent the form off to the library before all the info had been discovered and we now know who was living there, sods law that but nevermind!

I'm sorry, but I think it unrealistic that he would imagine he was FIFTEEN years at least older than he actually was

The death in 1965 is of a man born 1892...................roughly the same year as the woman May Syrett.

BTW, Florence, I trust you are aware that the Electoral Roll will tell you nothing except names ;-) ;-)

Ive no idea either at the moment ErikaH but so much has been found since this morning.

Jaspers mothers birth year ranges from 1889-1892. She was May M Syrett. Couldn't read or write properly so its possible they didnt actually know when they were born?

1939 image gives DOB as 25 April 1899.

Perhaps he didn't know when he was born.
Correct YOB given in 1921 - but not supplied by him at age 7.

Not sure how one can reconcile 25th April 1897 with 26th March 1914

Oh wow! What a find ladies ty so much.

I had looked at Read births on Free BMD and seen the Castle connection too but had no proof either.

But Alviegal that original mis spell in 1939 was Jasper even though yes his DOB is miles out.

I shall download the death cert for Jasper Read 1965 but his birthdate is still wrong as i have his birth cert.

Well better hand out gold stars to you all :-D :-D :-D

I shall now read & digest all the info and get it written down in an order so I can sort it all out.

This Jasper was a 1st cousin to my mums dad, my grandfather and was the last living link on that branch so hopefully no more Skinners,Haggertys and Syretts. Had enough of all of them!! And what a shower they all were too.

Every family has its problems and this branch was one of them unfortunately.

Right better crack on now sorting it all out on the family tree.

Thankyou everyone for your help

Florence in the hebrides.

As Gasper/Jasper's DOB is so wildly wrong in 1939 - assuming that's the man we're looking for - maybe it's even more wrong at his death???

???
Deaths Dec 1965 (>99%)
READ JASPER 73 SITTINGBOURNE 5F 638