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Abraham Collier
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name:
Abraham Collier
Event Type:
Christening
Event Date:
28 Feb 1796
Event Place:
Bolton le Moors St Peter, Lancashire, England
Event Place (Original):
Bolton-Le-Moors, Lancashire, England
Sex:
Male
Birthplace:
Harwd.
Father's Name:
James Collier
Mother's Name:
Betty Collier

Hi Malyon and ErikaH
This is the census and baptism information that I already had. I can see that living in the same house, as they did in 1841 is not an indication of a family tie.

I suppose that I was hoping there would be a tie as this would provide a paternal grandfather perhaps. Ann Collier was my Grandmother's great grandmother as not having any father's for two generations leaves a lot of unknown ancestors.

All I have is Ann Collier whose mother was Mary Collier (unmarried), whose mother was Betty Collier (unmarried).

Thanks for your help

Mary Collier
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name:
Mary Collier
Event Type:
Christening
Event Date:
15 Oct 1800
Event Place:
Bolton, Lancashire, England
Event Place (Original):
Saint Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Sex:
Female
Mother's Name:
Betty Collier

Abr Collier
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name:
Abr Collier
Event Type:
Christening
Event Date:
16 Jun 1821
Event Place:
Tottington, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original):
Saint Ann Chapel, Tottington, Lancashire, England
Sex:
Male
Birth Date:
28 Nov 1819
Father's Name:
Abr Collier
Mother's Name:
Lissey

Abraham Collier
England and Wales Census, 1841

Name:
Abraham Collier
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1841
Event Place:
Eccles, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original):
Eccles, Lancashire, England
County:
Lancashire
Parish:
Eccles
Registration District:
Salford
Residence Note:
Whit Lane
Sex:
Male
Age:
20
Age (Original):
20
Birth Year (Estimated):
1817-1821
Birthplace:
Lancashire
Page Number:
18
Registration Number:
HO107
Piece/Folio:
543/35
Affiliate Record Type:
Household
Affiliate Image Identifier:
GBC/1841/0543/0235&parentid=GBC/1841/0011349326
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Richard Cooper Male 20 Lancashire
Ann Cooper Female 19 Lancashire
Thomas Cooper Male 0 Lancashire
Abraham Collier Male 20 Lancashire
Thomas Blomeley Male 40 Lancashire
Mary Blomeley Female 40 Lancashire
Thomas Blomeley Male 15 Lancashire

Brother?

Baptism: 2 Sep 1816 St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England
James Collier - Son of Abraham Collier & Elizabeth
Abode: Harwood
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: J Brocklebank Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1815 - 1817, Page 156, Entry 1246
Source: LDS Family Search

I'm afraid that living in the same house does not prove any familial connection

Not saying they aren't related, but a shared address is far too tenuous. You need something more substantial

Baptism: 16 Jun 1821 St Anne, Tottington, Lancashire, England
Abraham Collier - son of Abraham Collier & Lissey
Born: 28 Mar 1819
Abode: Long Houses
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: Thos. Wade
Register: Baptisms 1818 - 1823, Page 56, Entry 442
Source: Original Parish Register

Marriage: 4 Jun 1843 St Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire, England
Abraham Collier - (X), of full age, Collier, Bachelor, Pendleton
Elizabeth Roscoe - (X), of full age, Spinster, Pendleton
Groom's Father: Abraham Collier, Collier
Bride's Father: Robert Roscoe, Spinner
Witness: William Roscoe; Thomas Gorse
Married by Banns by: Willm. Marsden, Vicar
Register: Marriages 1842 - 1843, Page 188, Entry 375
Source: Manchester Central Library

It's because in 1841 they are living in the same house in whit Lane Pendleton.

Point one

No father's name - Illegitimate

Why do you think that Abraham and Ann are directly related? The name Collier is very common


Baptism: 21 Sep 1822 St Anne, Tottington, Lancashire, England
Ann Collier - daughter of Mary Collier
Born: 20 Mar 1822
Abode: New Hoils
Occupation: Weaver
Notes: B. [under child's name]***************************
Baptised by: Thos. Wade
Register: Baptisms 1818 - 1823, Page 89, Entry 706
Source: Original Parish Register

Ann Collier was the illegitimate daughter of Mary Collier. She was baptised on 21 Sept 1822 in the Parish of Tottington, Bolton. She was born in Harwood.

Mary subsequently married Thomas Blomiley (Bromeley) on 17 Nov 1823 at St Peters, Bolton-le-Moors.
Ann married Richard Cooper on 17 Aug 1840 in the parish church of Eccles. There was no father’s name on the marriage certificate for Ann.

In the 1841 census, Richard and Ann, as well as their son Thomas Cooper were all living with her mother and step-father, Mary and Thomas Blomeley in Whit Lane, Pendleton. Also in the house was Abraham Collier aged 20.

I thought Abraham and Ann might have been brother and sister but this is not the case. Through later census, Abraham confirmed DOB is 28 March 1818 and he was baptised at St Anne’s, Tottington on 16 June 1821. His parents were Abraham and Lissey Collier (nee Barlow). Abraham and Lissey married at St Peter’s on 1 April 1816.

I then thought that Abraham and Ann could be cousins and that his father (Abraham) and her mother (Mary) could be the siblings.

I found an Abraham Collier (father) baptised at St Peter, Bolton-le-Moors on 28 Feb 1796. His parents were James and Betty Collier of Harwood. Abraham was the youngest of five children baptised to James and Betty.

Again, from later census I know that Mary was also born in Harwood in late 1800 or early 1801. There is a Mary Collier baptised on 15 Oct 1800 at St Peter, Bolton-le-Moors. She was the daughter of Betty Collier from Harwood. No father given.
Question) would the father’s name be absent from the baptism if he had died before the child was born or before she was baptised? Or, does the lack of father indicate illegitimacy?

Question 2) Could this Betty be Mary’s mother and James has died after Mary was conceived but before she was baptised?

I cannot find a burial of a James Collier in that area (Harwood, Tottington, or Bolton-le-Moors) for 1800 so I am a little bit stumped.

It seems unlikely that there is no kin relationship between Abraham Collier and Ann Cooper (nee Collier), but I cannot find it.

Your wisdom and suggestions are appreciated. Many thanks