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Kuros
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21 Nov 2020 13:46 |
Many people took in lodgers at that time so that's a possibility.
Annie
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ErikaH
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21 Nov 2020 09:27 |
Going back to the original question it’s still not beyond the realms of possibility that the closed record is for Dorothy’s child, as he/she hasn’t been positively identified elsewhere on the register (as far as I can deduce from other posts on here)
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Yvonne
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20 Nov 2020 23:33 |
Thanks. It all seems so iffy, so I’m going to send for that marriage certificate and see if that helps.
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ArgyllGran
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20 Nov 2020 17:26 |
Apart from your George's marriage, the only other one of a George F Nicholson in Lancashire, 1930-1939 is this one:
Marriages Dec 1936 (>99%) Harrison Maud Nicholson Liverpool N 8b 754 Nicholson George F Harrison Liverpool N. 8b 754
But that couple are with Maud's mother Catherine in 1939, and that George was born in 1911 - so George F 1917 could conceivably be yours, and one of the closed records might be Dorothy 1937 :
George F Nicholson in the 1939 England and Wales Register Name: George F Nicholson Gender: Male Marital Status: Married Birth Date: 01/08/1911 (1 Aug 1911) Residence Year: 1939 Address: 30 Residence Place: West Lancashire Lancashire England Occupation: Laundry Sales Manager Line Number: 39 Schedule Number: 29 Sub Schedule Number: 1 Enumeration District: NZVL Borough: West Lancashire Registration district: 457/4 Inferred Spouse: Maud Nicholson Household Members Age Catheine Harrison 67 George F Nicholson 28 Maud Nicholson 27
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ArgyllGran
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20 Nov 2020 16:54 |
This is George Frederick 1917 in 1939 :
If the three closed records are his wife and children, than he's not your George - but we don't know who they are, so can't rule it out:
Fred G Nicholson in the 1939 England and Wales Register Name: Fred G Nicholson Gender: Male Marital Status: Married Birth Date: 06/02/1917 (6 Feb 1917) Residence Year: 1939 Address: 12 Residence Place: Liverpool Lancashire England Occupation: Working Jeweler Line Number: 19 Schedule Number: 44 Sub Schedule Number: 3 Enumeration District: NISF Borough: Liverpool Registration district: 455/7 Household Members Age Sarah J Nicholson 60 - widow, 16/9/1879 Eleanor M Nicholson 25 - single, 22/9/1914 Fred G Nicholson 22
[and three closed records ]
Eleanor's DOB is a year out on the Register, as is often the case:
Births Dec 1913 (>99%) NICHOLSON Eleanor M Meredith W. Derby 8b 1160
Your George's marriage cert will give his occupation , which could be helpful.
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ArgyllGran
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20 Nov 2020 16:40 |
Running with that death , in the absence of any other possibility at the moment. (You do need his marriage cert.):
??? NICHOLSON, GEORGE FREDERICK mms MEREDITH GRO Reference: 1917 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 1037
Parents' marriage ??
Marriages Jun 1903 (>99%) Meredith Sarah Jane W. Derby 8b 676 Nicholson John George W. Derby 8b 676
?? John Nicholson in the 1911 England Census Name: John Nicholson Age in 1911: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: Ashh, Knotty Civil Parish: West Derby County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address: 3 Sunbeam Rd Old Swan Marital status: Married Occupation: Grocers Manager Registration District: West Derby Registration District Number: 455 Sub-registration District: West Derby Eastern ED, institution, or vessel: 30 Piece: 22640 Household Members: Name Age John Nicholson 30 Sarah Nicholson 31 Lilian Nicholson 6
Married 7 years.
I don't see Lilian's birth. Maybe that's just what she was known as in the family??
?? NICHOLSON, ELIZABETH DORIS mms MEREDITH GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 657
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Yvonne
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20 Nov 2020 16:32 |
I think I’d better get that marriage certificate and see what we can find about George. It might even give his age which would be a big help.
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ArgyllGran
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20 Nov 2020 16:20 |
You say, "If Dorothy is with grandparents shouldn’t she show up somewhere?"
Not if her record is still closed.
We would have to know the Nicholson parents' names in order to look them up and see if there's a closed r ecord with them.. At present we can't even assume they lived in the West Derby area.
If the 1957 death is indeed Dorothy's, then possilby this could be George's. - though we don't know his age:
George F Nicholson in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 Name: George F Nicholson Death Age: 46 Birth Date: abt 1917 Registration Date: Jul 1963 [Aug 1963] [Sep 1963] Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Registration District: Liverpool South Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 10d Page: 479
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Yvonne
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20 Nov 2020 15:55 |
Sorry, I don’t know anything about Nicholson, I suppose I could get their marriage certificate which would give his father’s name. If Dorothy is with grandparents shouldn’t she show up somewhere? Erika, the Griffith girl was not the mother, she was the sister of Dorothy’s mother and took on the care of the children after their parents died.
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ErikaH
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20 Nov 2020 15:10 |
I thought the Griffith woman was the mother of the Farrer girls - if she wasn’t there’s absolutely no reason to imagine the closed record is for a Farrer relation.
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ArgyllGran
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20 Nov 2020 10:56 |
That would be the Nicholson grandparents, as Dorothy's parents had both died before 1939.
Her father John died in 1919, West Derby. Her mother Catherine Emily died in 1924, West Derby, having remarried in 1922 to John Bray.
Yvonne, do you know George's parents' names?
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ErikaH
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20 Nov 2020 10:25 |
As Dorothy, nee Farrer, was working as a live-in servant, surely it's entirely feasible that her child was with grandparents..................
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ArgyllGran
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20 Nov 2020 10:14 |
Re George -
perhaps he was working away from home, if he wasn't in the forces.
For instance, there's this George F, married, and a closed record in the same household:
George F Nicholson in the 1939 England and Wales Register Name: George F Nicholson Gender: Male Marital Status: Married Birth Date: 05/07/1896 (5 Jul 1896) Residence Year: 1939 Address: 3 Residence Place: Beeston and Stapleford Nottinghamshire England Occupation: Excavator Driver Heavy Worker Line Number: 3 Schedule Number: 232 Sub Schedule Number: 2 Enumeration District: RNBF Borough: Beeston and Stapleford Registration district: 429-3 Household Members Age Marie W Sayer 31 - single George F Nicholson 43 - married [and one closed record ]
But that George is 20 years older than Dorothy - which doesn't necessarily rule him out, unless you know his YOB.
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ArgyllGran
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20 Nov 2020 10:01 |
Is Dorothy 1937 still living? Or did she die in the USA? In either case her record in 1939 will still be closed .
She might have been evacuated in 1939, and therefore her (probably closed) entry in 1939 could be with another family..
If George was in the forces, he won't appear on the 1939 Register.
Do you know when George was born? Or what his occupation was at marriage?
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Yvonne
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20 Nov 2020 01:10 |
Looking at Dorothy Farrer who married George F. Nicholson. They married in 1936 and had a daughter in 1937, who also had the name Dorothy. Maddie shows Dorothy working as a servant in a house in Birkenhead in 1939 Register, so I looked for where George was with the 2 year old Dorothy but couldn't find them. A family member remembers Dorothy being fondly remembered as Dorothy Nick but doesn't know if it was the mother or daughter but thinks possibly the daughter. Also, another family members had a letter from Dorothy from New York a number of years ago, so this was probably the daughter, if the death for Dorothy in 1974 is correct. But where were they in 1939?
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Yvonne
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19 Nov 2020 21:25 |
Thank you all. It looks like the closed record is probably a visitor or servant. I was just concerned there might be another family member I didn't know about.
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Maddie
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19 Nov 2020 13:54 |
in case you don't have it
John Last name Farrer Age 26 Birth year 1913 Occupation Fruit Porter Marital status Bachelor Year 1939 Marriage year 1939 Marriage date 19 Aug 1939 Place Stoneycroft, All Saints Denomination Church Of England Diocese Liverpool Residence 3 Upper Baker Street Boaler Street Father's first name(s) John Father's last name Farrer Father's occupation Fruit Merchant Spouse's first name(s) Olive Spouse's last name Jones Spouse's age 26 Spouse's birth year 1913 Spouse's occupation Factory Hand Spouse's marital status Spinster Spouse's residence 27 Helius Road Spouse's father's first name(s) John Spouse's father's last name Jones Spouse's father's occupation Railway Man Witness 1 Hugh Morris Witness 2 Lillian Birch County Lancashire Country England Archive Liverpool Record Office Archive reference 283-STY-3-5
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Maddie
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19 Nov 2020 12:54 |
?? 1939 7 Acrefield Road, Birkenhead, Birkenhead C.B., Cheshire, England
Horatio Scott 02 Feb 1867 Male Director Ltd Company Chemical Fertilizer Married 143 1 Margaret A Scott 22 Oct 1866 Female Unpaid Domestc Duties Married 143 2
Mary E Chambers 29 Sep 1887 Female Trained Sick Nurse Single 143 4 Dorothy Nicholson 23 Oct 1916 Female Domestic Servant Married 143 5
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Nov 2020 11:05 |
Another son
FARRER, JOSEPH SNOWDON GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 237 Maybe Marriages Mar 1932 Farrer Joseph Graves Liverpool 8b 283 Graves Hannah Farrer Liverpool 8b 283
But !
Mulgrave Street, Liverpool, Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England
H Calvert 05 Jun 1890 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 93 1 John G Calvert 26 Aug 1925 Male At School Single 93 2 The record for this person is officially closed. For individual people, records remain closed for a century after their birth (the 100-year rule), unless it can be proven that they passed away before this milestone. Use the ‘Open This Record’ button if you believe that this person is now deceased Ethel E Crawford 30 Jun 1911 Female Shop Assistant Single 93 4 William Hannay 01 Jul 1881 Male Produce Broker Single 93 5 John F L Zollner 23 Oct 1904 Male Company Director Single 93 6
Joseph Farrer 06 Jan 1911 Male Ships Steward Single 93 7. ??
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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19 Nov 2020 11:01 |
27 Heliers Road, Liverpool, Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England
John E Jones 28 Mar 1873 Male Blacksmith (Retired) Widowed 30 1 Gladys Harrison (Rogers) 25 Mar 1906 Female Dressmaker Single 30 2 Olive Farrer 09 Feb 1913 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 30 3 John Farrer 03 Jun 1913 Male Fruit Porter (Charge Hand) Married 30 4 Ref: RG101/4441A/004/7 Letter Code: NIVY ©
Births Jun 1913 Farrer John Snowdon W.Derby 8b 467
Similar occ to his dad
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