Find Ancestors

You are very welcome Wombat - glad you now have it sorted.

The details from that marriage cert for John + Sarah have been posted for you above...

Dea x

Today I received notification from GRO that the birth registration of John Henry White was ready for download.

So ... John Henry was born 27 October. 1834 at 8 Wageners Buildings, Whitechapel, Parents John White, Waterman, and Sarah White, formerly Cox, registration by mother on 27 November, 1854. Supt Registrar's District Whitechapel, Registrar's District, Goodmans Fields. (Bet there were no fields left in 1834.)

The address is the same as that on the 1851 Census when John White is described as a Waterman, and was born in Rotherhithe, Surrey. At the same address is Hannah Cox, Mother-in-Law.

Now awaiting the arrival of the marriage registration of John White & Sarah Cox in my mail box.

Many, many thanks to all those who have helped me unravel the mystery. Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

No apologies needed Wombat - this genealogy searching does 'get you that way' doesn't it?? - total confusion, tunnel vision, followed by complete addiction !! - It can work out to be quite expensive too ;-)

Hope you managed to get a bit more sleep and woke up to see lots of chocolate eggs.............. enjoy your Easter...................

Dea x

I do apologise for not noticing the census response. I was concentrating on marriages. Serves me right - my eyes had become rectangular with all the screen time.

i woke up at some ungodly hour this morning dreaming of Lucy Haines (!) and ordered a PDF of John Henry's 1854 Whitechapel birth record, Vol 1c Page 346. Now wondering if I should spend more of the kids' inheritance, or go back to bed.

Happy Easter to you all.

Yes Wombat - that's the family I posted for you yesterday morning (19 Apr 2019 09:47 above) ;-) :-D

This, I believe, was their marriage (also detailed above by Mel) :


Name: Sarah Cox
Gender: Female
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 6 Oct 1844
Marriage Place: St Saviour, Southwark, Southwark, England
Father: Jonathan Cox - bricklayer
Spouse: John White
His father: William White (Lighterman)
Register Type: Parish Register
witn. Ann Drewitt (widow of the late church sexton)+ Francis Parr (Parish clerk on 1851)

Dea x

I've found them on the 1851 Census — John White, Head, 31, Waterman, Surrey, Rotherhithe (I think) or Rotherhill;
Sarah, Wife, 29, Middlesex;
Emily, Daughter, 5, Surrey, Southward;
Charles, Son, 4, Whitechapel;
William, Son, 2, Minories City, London;
Marg, Daughter, 1 month, Middlesex;
Hannah Cox, Mother-in-Law, Widow, 72, Middlesex.

1861 Census —
8 Hagersman Buildings (I think), Tower Hamlet, Whitechapel
Sarah White, Head, W (widow?), 39, Tailoress, Cambridgeshire, Cambridge;
Charles, Son, 13, Warehouseboy, Middlesex; William, Son, 12, Bookbinders ___,
Middlesex; Edward, Son, 8, Scholar, Middlesex; John, Son, 6. Scholar, Middlesex; and three lodgers, Elizabeth Smith, Rebecca Bowman & May Grafsick.

I note the discrepancy between Sarah's entries of 1851 and 1861, and I'm sure Cambridgeshire isn't in the East End but, hey, the names and ages of the children match.

John Henry White, Mother’s Maiden Name Cox, born 4th Quarter, 1854, Whitechapel, London — Vol 1C, Page 346.

I've spent most of the day looking at Census records. Tomorrow I'll work on Deaths. Hopefully the offspring might call in to distract me with chocolate.

The street is Umberston Street, which joins Commercial Road (A13), Whitechapel, at right angles.

Thanks Mel,

I believe it would be the second one you posted - 1844.

The witnesses are of no help as they were both 'professional' witnesses so not related at all to the couple.

I believe the address would be on Commercial Rd. East although I can't quite make out the name of the street.

Dea x

Marriages

Name: John White WIDOWER Labourer
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 21 Sep 1840
Marriage Place: St Mary, Newington, Southwark, England
Father: John White Deceased<<<<
Spouse: Sarah Cox Spinster<<<<<
Register Type: Parish Register

Both Addresses Battersea Feilds.

Her father James Cox Barge Builder.

Witnesses Robert Sturgeon and Ann Riley



Name: John White Lighterman Bachelour*****
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 6 Oct 1844
Marriage Place: St Saviour, Southwark, Southwark, England
Father: William White
Spouse: Sarah Cox Spinster*****
Register Type: Parish Register

Father William White Lighterman

His address
13 Woolerston Street, Commercial Rd Ealing?

Her address

14 Woolerston Street, Commercial Rd.

Witnesses Francis Parr and Ann Drewitt

Banns were read in Sept.

Looking at Maddie's post above for a John Henry born Whitechapel, I think that is the correct one - see below:


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Wageners Buildings, Saint Mary Whitechapel, Whitechapel, London & Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John White Head Married Male 31 1820 Waterman Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Sarah White Wife Married Female 29 1822 - Middlesex, England
Emily White Daughter Unmarried Female 5 1846 - Southwark, Surrey, England
Charles White Son - Male 4 1847 - Whitechapel, Middlesex, England
William White Son - Male 2 1849 - London, England
Mary White Daughter - Female 0 1851 - Whitechapel, Middlesex, England
Hannah Cox Mother In Law Widow Female 72 1779 - Middlesex, England

You will note that John is a 'Waterman' which could well match with a 'sailor' ??



Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WHITE, WILLIAM COX
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in EAST LONDON UNION Volume 02 Page 235

WHITE, CHARLES COX
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL UNION Volume 02 Page 548

WHITE, MARY COX
GRO Reference: 1851 J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 02 Page 602

WHITE, EDWARD COX
GRO Reference: 1852 S Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 359


WHITE, JOHN HENRY COX
GRO Reference: 1854 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 346


WHITE, LOUISA COX
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 350




Could be this marriage?
Marriages Sep 1840 (>99%)
ADAMSON Sarah Newington 4 354 Scan available - click to view
ATTRIDGE Mary Ann Newington 4 354 Scan available - click to view
BARNETT Benjamin Newington 4 354 Scan available - click to view
BARTH Charles Edward Newington 4 354 Scan available - click to view
COX Sarah Newington 4 354 Scan available - click to view ******************
HUTCHINGS Avendina Newington 4 354 Scan available - click to view
JONES Thomas Newington 4 354 Scan available - click to view
WHITE John Newington 4 354 Scan available - click to view ******************


Or, I think this one is more probable ??

Marriages Dec 1844 (>99%)
COLLINS James Peter St Saviour 4 513 Scan available - click to view
COLLIS Charlotte St Saviour 4 513 Scan available - click to view
COX Sarah St Saviour Sk 4 513 Scan available - click to view >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DRAKE Ellen St Saviour Sk 4 513 Scan available - click to view
FAIRBARNS Elizabeth St Saviour 4 513 Scan available - click to view
TURNER John Thomas St Saviour 4 513 Scan available - click to view
WELLS Augustus St Saviour 4 513 Scan available - click to view
WHITE John St Saviour 4 513 Scan available - click to view >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Dea x

Thank you, Maddie. I find the English registration of Births, etc. very confusing. The Australia system differs in that actual place names are given - no confusing Parishes, etc. which probably change over time anyway.

The search continues..

there is this one
John Henry
Last name White
Gender Male
Birth year 1852
Birth place -
Baptism year 1853
Baptism date 02 Jan 1853
Place Shoreditch
County London
Country England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name White
Mother's first name(s) Jane
Mother's last name -
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975

distance between whitechapel and shoreditch
(0.9 mi) via Commercial Rd/A13 and Commercial St/A1202

but father is a tobacconist


WHITE, JOHN HENRY COX
GRO Reference: 1854 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 346

The 1851 Census records the following George Hayes' family living at Watermoor —

George Head Married Male 47 1804 Ag Labr Leighterton, Gloucestershire
Louisa Wife Married Female 37 1814 - Cirencester
William Son Unmarr Male 18 1833 Hurdle Maker Cirencester
Rachel Dau Unmarr Female 16 1835 - Cirencester
Mary Ann Dau - Female 11 1840 Scholar Cirencester
Martha Dau - Female 9 1842 Scholar Cirencester
James Son - Male 6 1845 Scholar Cirencester
Richard Son - Male 4 1847 - Cirencester
Jane Dau - Female 0 1851 - Cirencester
(Martha yet to come in 1842 - the year of Lucy's death)

I've abbreviated it a bit but feel free to check. Rachel shows Rank ... as Servant, but this has been crossed out. Jane is shown as 7 months old.

The 1861 Census shows George's Birth Place as Cirencester, and the family living in Waterman Street in the Hamlet of Chesterton, along with Louisa (43), Richard (14) Ag Laborer, Jane (10), Caroline (8), Elizabeth (5), and Edward (2). Another child, Susanna, was born in 1862.

I'm putting my money on this being "my" family.

I invested in a copy of the birth registration of Henry John White, the first child born in Australia. I should have done that years ago!

John Henry registered the birth and states that he was 30 years old and was born at Whitechapel, London. [Gives place of marriage as Swindon, Wltshire & Laborer as current occupation.]

Does Whitechapel fit in with Maddie's response re birth place —
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Westminster St Anne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary

I think this is 'Louisa' on 1841 ??


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Sinwell, Wotton under Edge, Dursley, Gloucestershire, England

Loisa Clark Female 24 1817 Gloucestershire, England - cloth worker
Maria Kinton Female 9 1832 Gloucestershire, England

Listed above them on image - seperate household but same house:

Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Aaron Kinton Male 45 1796 Gloucestershire, England - Ag. Labr.
Sophia Kinton Female 50 1791 Gloucestershire, England
Esther Kinton Female 19 1822 Gloucestershire, England
Harriet Kinton Female 17 1824 Gloucestershire, England
William Kinton Male 12 1829 Gloucestershire, England

Dea x

from the hayes tree on ancestry
Marriage
28 december 1845 • baptist chapel, Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England

George (widower) living in Watermoor working as a labourer, father William also labourer. Louisa spinster of watermoor no parents named on certificate. witnesses james and emma cox certified copy of marriage certificate
George Hayes

(1804–1886)


Louisa Hayes
Age
83
Birth Year
abt 1821
Burial Date
3 Dec 1904
Burial Place
Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England
Search Photos
Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England
Household Members




Name
George Hayes
Gender
Male
Event Type
Marriage
Marriage Date
27 Jan 1829
Marriage Place
Wotton under Edge, Gloucestershire, England
Parish as it Appears
Wotton Under Edge
Search Photos
Wotton under Edge, Gloucestershire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map
3099
Spouse
Lucy Clarke -------------------
Household Members

NameAge
NameGeorge Hayes
NameLucy Clarke

Lucy
Last name Hayes
Age 34
Birth year 1808
Death year 1842
Burial year 1842
Burial date 18 Sep 1842
Church St John The Baptist
Denomination Anglican
Place Cirencester
County Gloucestershire
Country England

children

William Hayes

1833–1905
Rachael Hayes

1835–
george Hayes

1838–
mary ann Hayes

1840–
martha Hayes

1842–


Lucy
Last name Clark
Gender Female
Birth year 1808
Birth place -
Baptism year 1808
Baptism date 29 Jun 1808
Place Thornbury
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Clark
Mother's first name(s) Hester

Name: Rachael Hayes
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Feb 1833
Baptism Place: Wotton under Edge, Gloucestershire, England
Parish as it Appears: Wotton Under Edge
Search Photos: Search for 'Wotton under Edge' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: George Hayes
Mother: Lucy Hayes

I'm getting totally confused.

Louisa (censuses 1851 onwards) was born c 1817, same as Lucy in 1841.

Louisa in 1901:

Louisa Hayes
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Louisa Hayes
Age: 84
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Relation to Head: Pauper Inmate (Pauper)
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Wotton Under Edge, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: Cirencester
Ecclesiastical parish: Cirencester
Town: Cirencester
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Cirencester
Sub-registration district: Cirencester
ED, institution, or vessel: Cirencester Union Workhouse
Neighbors:
Piece: 2448
Folio: 168
Page Number: 3
Household schedule number: 1

Is it possible George married two different Lucy/Louisa Clark(e)s ? One born c1809 and the other born c1817 ?

I'll stop now before I confuse everyone further.

BUT
the Lucy who died in 1842 was aged 33 at death, which would mean she was born in c1809, and could well have married in 1829.

So is that a different Lucy? Or is the YOB on 1841 census wrong? Perhaps iher age should read 34?

Death:

HAYES, LUCY 33
GRO Reference: 1842 D Quarter in CIRENCESTER UNION Volume 11 Page 175

However, I don't see a woman of similar name born c1809 in Cirencester area in 1841.

You mention marriages first to a Lucy, and then to Louisa Clarke.
Are you sure Louisa and Lucy aren't the same person ??

??

George Hayes
in the Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938
Name: George Hayes
Gender: Male
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 27 Jan 1829
Marriage Place: Wotton under Edge, Gloucestershire, England
Parish as it Appears: Wotton Under Edge
: View this parish
Spouse: Lucy Clarke


Daughter Rachael ?:

Rachael Hayes
in the Gloucestershire, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1913
Name: Rachael Hayes
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Feb 1833
Baptism Place: Wotton under Edge, Gloucestershire, England
Parish as it Appears: Wotton Under Edge
View this parish
Father: George Hayes
Mother: Lucy Hayes


According to the censuses, George was born in Leighterton, which is near Wotton under Edge.
Louisa was born in Wotton under Edge.

I don't see births or baptisms for any of the other older children


EDIT:
However, I do see the 1845 marriage:

Marriages Dec 1845 (>99%)
CLARK Louisa Cirencester 11 426
HAYES George Cirencester 11 426


EDIT AGAIN:

Ah, no, I see from the 1841 census that Lucy was born 1817.

If that's correct, then she can't be the one who married in 1829.


For reference:

Lucy Haines
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Lucy Haines
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1817
Gender: Female
Where born: Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: St Mary and St Peter Siddington
Hundred: Crowthorne and Minty
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Cirencester
Sub-registration district: Cirencester
Neighbors:
Piece: 354
Book: 22
Folio: 6
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
George Haines 39
Lucy Haines 24
Willm Haines 9
Rachel Haines 6
George Haines 6
Mary Ann Haines 1

John Henry's address was Rodbourne Lane, and Caroline's was Watchfield, Berks, which is also near Highworth.


From Wikipedia:

Watchfield is a village and civil parish in the Vale of White Horse in on the edge of southwest Oxfordshire, southern England, about 3 miles (4.8 km) southeast of Highworth in neighbouring Wiltshire.



The only John Henry White living anywhere near there in 1881 was the shoemaker, but we've seen he's not the right man.