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Jane Ireland

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Yvonne

Yvonne Report 4 Jan 2019 17:44

Thanks everyone. It does seem as though the first Jane died and thanks Austin for finding that death. The age at death is right as she was baptised in April. It looks as though Hannah may have been pregnant when the first Jane died.
If I remember correctly, Toxteth, West Derby and Stanley, Old Swan are not a million miles apart.


AustinQ

AustinQ Report 4 Jan 2019 13:18

Possible death of first child:-

Liverpool, England, Church of England Burials:

Name: Jane Ireland
Age: 10 months
Birth Year: abt 1835
Burial Date: 15 Nov 1835
abode: West Derby
Burial Place: Stanley, St Anne, Lancashire, England

(The Parish of St Anne Stanley, Old Swan)

alviegal

alviegal Report 4 Jan 2019 12:39

I had the same query with some people I was researching. We never did find a definite reason but it may be helpful to read my post.

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1364312

Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 4 Jan 2019 08:23

I too wondered about the same family moving, but wondered why John Smith , the minister would not remember baptising the child previously?

With a burial not found, it does seem as if it is the 2nd baptism of the same Jane.

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 4 Jan 2019 03:55

from ancestry.

These records show the image of the Parish Register ......... and I was hoping that a note might have been made as to actual date of birth, private baptism (because of ill health), or such

Liverpool, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1917

Name: Jane Treland
[Jane Ireland]
Baptism Date: 26 Apr 1835
Baptism Place: Toxteth, St James, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Toxteth, St James' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Isaac Treland
Mother: Hannah Treland

from image:-
Address:- Wright Street, Toxteth

no other note


Liverpool, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1917

Name: Jane Freland
[Jane Ireland]
Baptism Date: 31 Jul 1836
Baptism Place: Toxteth, St James, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Toxteth, St James' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Isaac Freland
Mother: Hannah Freland

no additional note to the entry found on lancs-opc


Looking again at Lancs-opc, Jane was the only child that was baptised twice, and I can find no burial ............

Baptism: 16 Jun 1826 St James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
Ellen Ireland - Daughter of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Wright Street, Toxteth Park
Baptised by: John Smith, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1820 - 1826 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 141, Entry 1132
Source: LDS Film 1468980

Baptism: 17 Feb 1828 St James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
John Ireland - Son of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Wright Street, Toxteth Park
Occupation: Roper
Baptised by: John Smith, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1835, Page 177, Entry 1413
Source: LDS Film 1468980

Baptism: 27 Sep 1829 St James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
Martha Ireland - Daughter of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Wright Street, Toxteth Park
Occupation: Cordwainer
Baptised by: J. Gladstone, Offg. Minister
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1835, Page 203, Entry 1629
Source: LDS Film 1468980

Baptism: 26 Jun 1831 St James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
William Ireland - Son of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Wright Street, Toxteth Park
Occupation: Rope Maker
Baptised by: John Smith, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1835, Page 236, Entry 1893
Source: LDS Film 1468980

Baptism: 21 Apr 1833 St James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
Rebecca Ireland - Daughter of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Wright Street, Toxteth Park
Occupation: Rope Maker
Baptised by: John Smith, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1835, Page 266, Entry 2129
Source: LDS Film 1468980

Baptism: 26 Apr 1835 St James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
Jane Ireland - Daughter of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Wright St. Toxteth Park
Occupation: Roper
Baptised by: John Smith, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1835, Page 291, Entry 2351
Source: LDS Film 1468980

Baptism: 31 Jul 1836 St James, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England
Jane Ireland - Daughter of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Old Swan, West Derby
Occupation: Roper
Baptised by: John Smith, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1843 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 3, Entry 68
Source: LDS Film 1468981

Baptism: 25 Mar 1838 St James, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England
Hannah Ireland - [Child] of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Old Swan
Occupation: Rope Maker
Baptised by: John Smith, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1843 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 11, Entry 259
Source: LDS Film 1468981

Baptism: 6 Sep 1840 St James, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England
Wm. Ireland - Son of Isaac Ireland & Anna
Abode: Old Swan, West Derby
Occupation: Rope Maker
Baptised by: H. B. Jones, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1843 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 63, Entry 501
Source: LDS Film 1468981

Looking at those images, there was a move from Wright Street, Toxteth Park to Old Swan, West Derby

I wonder if there was some upset at that time and they forgot that Jane had been baptised and so had her done again??

There ARE other Isaac Irelands in the Liverpool area at that time, but only one with wife Hannah/Anna

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 4 Jan 2019 03:33

From Lancs-opc

Baptism: 26 Apr 1835 St James, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
Jane Ireland - Daughter of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Wright St. Toxteth Park
Occupation: Roper
Baptised by: John Smith, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1835, Page 291, Entry 2351
Source: LDS Film 1468980

Baptism: 31 Jul 1836 St James, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England
Jane Ireland - Daughter of Isaac Ireland & Hannah
Abode: Old Swan, West Derby
Occupation: Roper
Baptised by: John Smith, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1843 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 3, Entry 68
Source: LDS Film 1468981

Addresses different, but both men are Ropers


There seems to be only one Isaac Ireland showing up on Ancestry, in the 184=51 Census, and there is no Jane mentioned

1851 Census

Name: Isaac Ireland
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Hannah Ireland
Gender: Male
Where born: Dungeon, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: West Derby
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: 1w

Household schedule number: 62
Piece: 2192
Folio: 687
Page Number: 16

Isaac Ireland 49 Rope Maker
Hannah Ireland 48
John Ireland 22
Hannah Ireland 13
James Ireland 9
Mary Ireland 7
Elizabeth Ireland 5

Address: St Oswald Street

Jane is on the 1841 Census ........


1841 Census

Name: Isaac Ireland
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Walton On The Hill
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby
Piece: 520
Book: 9
Folio: 44
Page number: 6

Isaac Ireland 35 Roper
Hannah Ireland 35
John Ireland 13
Rebecca Ireland 8
Jane Ireland 5
Hannah Ireland 3

Address:- Blackhorse Lane


Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 4 Jan 2019 02:04

Are they definitely the same set of parents?

The second baptism has a parental address in West Derby.

Have you found the family in 1841?

Yvonne

Yvonne Report 4 Jan 2019 01:26

I have Jane Ireland with parents Isaac Ireland and Hannah Lloyd. There are two baptisms given for Jane - one on 26 Apr 1835 at St. James, Liverpool and one on 31 July 1836 at St. James, Liverpool. Both show parents as above. Is it possible the first Jane died but I can't find a death.