Find Ancestors

Top tip - using the Genes Reunited community

Welcome to the Genes Reunited community boards!

  • The Genes Reunited community is made up of millions of people with similar interests. Discover your family history and make life long friends along the way.
  • You will find a close knit but welcoming group of keen genealogists all prepared to offer advice and help to new members.
  • And it's not all serious business. The boards are often a place to relax and be entertained by all kinds of subjects.
  • The Genes community will go out of their way to help you, so don’t be shy about asking for help.

Quick Search

Single word search

Icons

  • New posts
  • No new posts
  • Thread closed
  • Stickied, new posts
  • Stickied, no new posts

Barking up the wrong tree? Sarah Ball

Page 1 + 1 of 2

  1. «
  2. 1
  3. 2
ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 21 Nov 2018 17:08

Purely on the reg district is this a possible

SARAH
Last name WALLACE
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1919
Registration month -

MarriageFinder ™
SARAH WALLACE married one of these people
Alfred Talmage
Spouse's last name Talmage
District Wandsworth
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Volume as transcribed 1D
Page number 1330
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 21 Nov 2018 16:47

Looks like Claude died in ww1

Claude Edgar Wallace
Birth Place: Chelsea, Middx.
Death Date: 21 Jul 1918
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: Wandsworth, Surrey
Rank: Private
Regiment: Army Ordnance Corps
Regimental Number: 031157
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre
Other Records: Search for 'Claude Edgar Wallace' in other WWI collections
War Diaries (France, Belgium, Germany): Search for 'Army Ordnance Corps' in the WWI War Diaries (France, Belgium, Germany) collection
War Diaries (Gallipoli): Search for 'Army Ordnance Corps' in the WWI War Diaries (Gallipoli) collection


Was hoping to find them on the 1939 register which would show her actual birthdate

Did she remarry after Claude died

greyghost

greyghost Report 21 Nov 2018 16:37

the 1891 you think might be her

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Barker Passage, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Ball Head Married Male 71 1820 Coal Miner Shropshire, England
Mary Ball Wife Married Female 70 1821 - Shropshire, England
Emma Ball Daughter Single Female 38 1853 Potters Transferer Staffordshire, England
Sarah Ball Granddaughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Staffordshire, England

James and Mary both born in what probably says Dunnington Wood, Shropshire.
Emma and Sarah in Stoke on Trent

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 21 Nov 2018 16:30

Sarah could be the illegitimate daughter of Emma Ball born 1853

This is that birth GRO record that indicates mmn was also Ball


BALL, SARAH - Order
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 275

However there two years diff is she was born c1886,

Plus on the 1911 census a march reg birth would be listed still as 1888 not 1889

greyghost

greyghost Report 21 Nov 2018 16:25

Just working backwards

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
WALLACE, IVY LILIAN BALL Order
GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 612

--------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1915 (>99%)
Ball Sarah Wallace Wandsworth 1d 1993
Mears Miriam F Taylor Wandsworth 1d 1993
Taylor Richard Mears Wandsworth 1d 1993
Wallace Claude E [BP]all Wandsworth 1d 1993

1911 census says married 4 years! 2 children born and still alive
Only says Staffordshire for Sarah's pob

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 21 Nov 2018 16:15

To answer a couple of your questions.

Yes, it was quite common for an illegitimate person to make up a deceased father’s name for a MC. Giving an occupation is less usual. Unless proven otherwise she might have combined a stepfathers first name with her own surname.

Where have you seen Private given as the named father? That’s not something I’ve come across. If a child is illegitimate & the mother unmarried, then that section on the birth certificate is left blank.

The husband of a married woman is always presumed to be the father unless some other man attends the register office & accepts paternity. You can get some odd situations when a husband is supposed to have fathered a child 10 years after he had died!

Where have you looked for a birth reg? Does Sarah Ball give a Staffordshire town on any of the census?

The basic search site most people use is
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Once you’ve identified the most likely birth, search on https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

You will have to register first. The advantage over Freebmd is that it gives the mother’s maiden name prior to 1911. If one is not listed, then the mother was unmarried.

Staffordshire BMD can be searched on http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk
That also gives mother’s maiden name. A blank column indicates the mother was unmarried.


Eugenie

Eugenie Report 21 Nov 2018 16:12

Yes, that is my grandmother Sarah.
I have details of her life in London but am trying to work backwards to her birth circumstances.

safc

safc Report 21 Nov 2018 15:51

????

Record Transcription:
1911 Census For England & Wales

47 Fernthorpe Road Streatham London S W, Wandsworth Borough, London & Surrey, England
Claude Edgar Wallace's Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Claude Edgar Wallace Head Married Male 25 1886 Tailor Chelsea S W
Sarah Wallace Wife Married Female 22 1889 - Staffordshire
Frank Edgar Wallace Son - Male 2 1909 - Streatham S W
Ivy Lillian Wallace Daughter - Female 0 1911 - -

Eugenie

Eugenie Report 21 Nov 2018 14:50

Fact:
My grandmother was Sarah Ball born circa 1887 ( based on age on marriage cert as 28 and marriage in 1915)
I know of Sarah from the marriage certificate for my Granddad-Claude Edgar Wallace
The marriage cert shows Sarah's father as John Ball(Deceased) Potter, journeyman.
I know from census records that Sarah was born in Staffordshire.

Guesswork:
Trying to go back further I have located a Sarah Ball aged 5 on the 1891 census living at Barker Passage, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire.

The head of the family is James Ball born 1820
Wife Mary Ball born 1821
Daughter Emma Ball born 1853
Granddaughter Sarah Ball Born 1886

On looking into the birth register for Sarah it shows only the name of the mother but PRIVATE where fathers name should be.

I have three issues really that I would appreciate any help with...

Firstly, how can I verify this is the correct Sarah, or am I fixating just because the name/location and DOB loosely ties up?

Secondly, The PRIVATE note on the birth register and lack of father on the census, is the register entry standard if someone refused to name the father? I haven't come across this before.

Lastly, the fact that on Sarah's marriage certificate states her father was a John Ball (Deceased). Could it have been standard practice to make up a parental detail if she was illegitimate?

Sorry for the long winded explanation but just trying to provide as much detail as possible.
Many thanks in advance for any light anyone can shed.