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Many thanks again everyone - I never thought Herbert would turn out to have such an interesting story! ??

Yes, Very sorry Greyghost!

I mean't to thank you- just got caught up with the marriages and then forgot.

Thank you for the details- as AG said, it is our man, and shows he definitely hadn't died when Frances took up with Herbert :-)

AG- I did think you'd probably done that- easy mistake.

Yes thanks, GG.

So both records are for the same man, and he's the right one.

AQ - noted re the Goodhall/Clarke marriage.

Re 1939 - yes, Herbert was single. I was stupidly looking at the M for "male" - too late at night!

Are they the Army records you wanted, you don't say?

Possible death for Fanny:

First name(s) FRANCES L
Last name SMITH
Gender Unknown
Birth year 1873
Age 61
Death quarter 4
Death year 1934
District Smethwick
County Worcestershire
Volume 6B Page 758

Alfred Arthur Goddhall/ Smith born c1894 retained his Smith name and married in Hamilton in 1917 to Florence Lydia Hemming.Alfred lists his father as Herbert Smith (bolt maker).

Alfred and Florence travelled to Australia in 1922- their last address UK address is listed as 28 Spon Street, Smethwick

Also- I don't think that 1947 marriage to Reginald Clarke is our Frances Goodhall.

There is a passenger list for 1950 of a Frances Lucy Clarke aged 22 travelling to Bermuda with a 1 year old child. Her address is given as 12 Monkland Street, Airdrie.

There are 2 Scottish births for a Frances Lucy Goodhall in 1927- so I suspect the marriage is more likely for one of those.

Reginald Lowe Clarke died in Kent in (1926- 2004). His wife, Frances, also died in Kent (1927- 1993)
----------------------------

William Herbert Goodhall (1891), son of Frances, married in Airdrie in 1912 to Elizabeth Jeffrey. Herbert Smith was a witness to the marriage.

William Herbert Goodhall remained in Scotland.

AG- Herbert is listed as single on the 1939 register:

Smith Household (2 People) 327 Oldbury Road , Smethwick C.B., Staffordshire, England

Herbert Smith 17 Nov 1868 Male Bolt Header (Retired) Single
Lenard Smith 06 Nov 1912 Male Incapacitated (Never ?) Single

A further Attestation to the Militia

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

First name(s) William
Last name Goodhall
Birth year 1859
Birth parish Cheltenham
Birth town Cheltenham
Birth county Gloucestershire
Birth country England
Service number 8598
Regiment Royal Warwickshire Regiment
Year 1901
Attestation date 29 Nov 1901
Attestation age years 42
Attestation age months 9
Attestation service number 8598
Attestation corps 5th R War R
Document type Attestation
Series Wo 96 - Militia Service Records 1806-1915
Archive The National Archives
Archive reference WO 96
Box 104
Box record number 300
Record set British Army Service Records
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain, England

Now resides at 13 Catey Road, Selly Oak +++++++++ 1911 address
MArried
Previously served 12 years Royal Warks Regt
Mole between shoulder blades **********
Re - Enlisted as Private, promoted Sergeant 2nd December
Embarked for South Africa 16.12.01
Embarked for England 10.9.02
Disembodied 29.9.1902
South Africa Medals 1902
discharged time expired 28.11.1905

Looks as though he went straight from Full Army Service to Militia. the papers are quite confusing re Militia/Militia Reserve

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

this is a Militia Attestation

First name(s) William
Last name Goodhall
Birth year 1856
Birth parish Cheltenham
Birth town Cheltenham
Birth county Gloucestershire
Birth country England
Service number 3820
Regiment Royal Warwickshire Regiment
Year 1887
Attestation date 11 Feb 1887 - should read 1891
Attestation age years 31
Attestation age months 10
Attestation service number 3820
Attestation corps Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment
Document type Attestation
Series Wo 96 - Militia Service Records 1806-1915
Archive The National Archives
Archive reference WO 96
Box 104
Box record number 256
Record set British Army Service Records

Attested to Militia as a Private and promoted to Sergeant next day
Resided Cokes Farm, High Park Road, Smethwick
A Labourer
Previously served 10 years 2nd Btn Royal Warwickshire Regt and 2 years Army Reserve
Mole between shoulders *****

Attested to Militia Reserve July 1891 (went from Militia to Reserve Militia)
Born Cleve, Cheltenham, Glos
Address 60 Corbett Street, Smethwick

Reengaged into Militia June 1894 and Discharged from Militia Reserve as a Sergeant February 1895

NOK - wife Francis Lucy
No. of children - could be a squiggle, one or none !!

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

First name(s) William
Last name Goodhall
Birth year 1860
Birth parish Cleve
Birth town Cheltenham
Birth county Gloucestershire
Birth country England
Service number 1974
Regiment 28th Foot
Year 1879
Attestation date 05 Feb 1879
Attestation age years 19
Attestation age months 10
Attestation service number 1974
Attestation corps 28th Foot
Discharge corps 28th Foot
Document type Attestation


Attested at Birmingham
A Labourer
Embarked for India 1879 - served in at least Cawnpore, Calcutta, Jubbalpore (recorded hospital admissions in these places)
Back to England Nov 1888 on HMS Malabar
Promoted to Lance Sergeant
Discharged February 1891 at Warwick
NOK - Parents George and Ann
Brothers James, Frank, Edwin, Arthur
Sisters - Elizabeth, Fanny

Herbert's listed as married in the 1939 register, but it looks as if Frances was maybe still in Scotland. The Scottish 1939 isn't searchable.

She remarried in Scotland in 1947:

GOODHALL
FRANCES LUCY
CLARKE
REGINALD LOW
1947
651/ 133
Airdrie or New Monkland

She doesn't seem to have died in Scotland, but I can't see her death in England/Wales either..

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

So many have helped I won't name you all, but you have obviously cracked it. What a wonderful group you all are. I never thought to look at Scotland, der. Fancy that. I wonder what on earth took him up there?

Plenty for me to get stuck into now!

Again, thanks a million.

<3

One last thing- Birth date for Fanny

Staffordshire baptisms Transcription

name(s) Frances Lucy Morris
Birth date 17 Apr 1871
Baptism date 07 Feb 1873
Baptism place West Bromwich, Christ Church
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
County Staffordshire

This is the only birth 1858-61:

Births Jun 1859 (>99%)
Goodall William Winchcomb 6a 350


Winchcomb includes Bishops Cleeve.

I don't have access either, AQ, but it does say Cleeve, so unless the man in Pembroke in 1901 is a different person, then yes , that will be "our" William.

Oh, there are two records, one for a William born 1860, from Cleeve - army record 1879.
And the other for William born 1859, army record 1901, from Cheltenham.

Could be the same person - or not!

Maybe someone with FMP sub will pick up on this and have a look.

I'm leaving now, before my eyes fall out of my head.

I think he was in the military in 1901- but can't check the image. EDIT- Maybe not- that census looks good AG.

See you tomorrow :-)

William's death ??

William Goodhall
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: William Goodhall
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Registration Year: 1914
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 55
Registration district: King's Norton
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6c
Page: 37


Maybe ??

William Goodhall
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: William Goodhall
Age in 1901: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Cleave, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: Pembroke St Mary
Town: Pembroke Dock
Ecclesiastical parish: Pembroke Dock St John
County/Island: Pembrokeshire
Country: Wales
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Pembroke
Sub-registration district: Pembroke
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 160
Piece: 5123
Folio: 18
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
James Duggan 41
Agnes E Duggan 39
Edith E Duggan 16
William A Duggan 15
Daisy M Duggan 13
Frank E Duggan 11
Gladys Duggan 7
Harold J Duggan 4
Gwendoline Duggan 3
William Goodhall 42 - bricklayer

(But he was a furnaceman in 1891, so maybe not.)


Bishops Cleeve is just north of Cheltenham.

AG- I don't know if you have access but FMP has the military record for William Goodhall- I think it's Fanny's husband, but I can't check the image.

I think this is him in 1911- possible death 1914:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
13 Katie Road Selly Oak, Northfield, Worcestershire, England

William Goodhall Head Married Male 50 1861 Cleane Near Cheltham Labourer
Elizabeth Goodhall Wife Married Female 55 1856 Gloucestershire Newark -
John Evans Lodger Widower Male 70 1841 Pembrook Wales Guardner
John Kirby Lodger Single Male 30 1881 Lady Wood Bham Brass Caster
Mary Ann Broadest Mother In Law Widow Female 81 1830 Gloucetershire Newark -
Elsie Gillett Adopted Daughter - Female 8 1903 Selly Oak Wors Attending School
---------------------------

Marriages Mar 1898
Broadest Elizabeth King's N. 6c 529 view
Broadist Elizabeth King's N. 6c 529
Goodhall William King's N. 6c 529

So that's why no John on the 1901.

My internet is playing up- I can't seem to view images at the moment- but I think we can get the gist here. I believe Fanny's first husband was still living in 1901/ 1911 - so they either divorced or it was a bigamous marriage.- Could be why Herbert lists himself as single on the 1939?

I take another look tomorrow- hopefully internet will be up to full speed then.