Find Ancestors

Starting point looks to be below Sylvia from other 'Thread'...

Chris :)

(Martha Howarth is my 3 x great grandmother who married William Yates in 1843)

Marriage: 9 Jan 1843 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
William Yates - (X), Full, Shoe Maker, Bachelor, Bagslate
Martha Howarth - (X), Full, Spinster, Bagslate
Groom's Father: John Yates, Labourer
Bride's Father: John Howarth, Collier
Witness: James Wallwork, (X); John Grindrod
Married by Banns by: Wm. Simpson, Curate
Register: Marriages 1842 - 1843, Page 166, Entry 331
Source: LDS Family Search


(what else he has as 'definite' for John and Sarah as Parents, I don't know!, lol)

Chris .............

I've looked and looked at that entry, and wondered if it was Alice's baptism. The timing fits so well, and it is the "family" church.


I wonder if it is time to get Mark to give us his original stating point ............ eg, the parent or grandparent that leads back to these guys, and see if someone went wrong somewhere

start with a clean slate as it were?

(ooerr! Sylvia, that's strange, FMP has Labourer, but Martha Peggy, Alice and Molly are Cotton Weavers)

Chris :)

(same reference!)

Archive reference HO107
Piece number 551
Book number 6
Folio number51
Page number 7


(if Alice)

Baptism: 27 Mar 1826 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Alice Howorth - daughter of John Howorth & Sarah
Abode: Marled Earth
Occupation: Weav'r.
Baptised by: Jas. Aspinall, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1827, Page 32, Entry 254
Source: LDS Family Search


(looking on google, Marled Earth seems to be Wardle)


Edits (then I see Maddie had already posted!, along with below)

Baptism: 17 Sep 1826 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Jas. Howorth - son of John Howorth & Sarah
Abode: Spotland
Occupation: Weav'r.
Baptised by: Jas. Aspinall, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1827, Page 95, Entry 759
Source: LDS Family Search

Baptism: 25 Sep 1836 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
John Howorth - [Child] of John Howorth & Sally
Abode: Bagslate
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: W. T. Hobson, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1836, Page 118, Entry 943
Source: LDS Film 1342496

The 1841 census I've posted shows John Howarth as a Fuller, which is something to do with weaving or spinning

1841

John Howarth 45 Fuller
Sarah Howarth 40
Martha Howarth 20 Throttle Piecer
Peggy Howarth 15 Stitcher??? <<<<<<< name is BETTY
Alice Howarth 15
Molly Howarth 10
James Howarth 3
John Howarth 5


and therefore I did wonder whether this marriage had ever come into consideration .........

Marriage: 27 Jun 1841 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Emmanuel Schofield - (X), Full, Potter, Bachelor, Wardle
Martha Howarth - (X), Minor, Spinster, Whitworth
Groom's Father: James Schofield, Carter
Bride's Father: John Howarth, Spinner
Witness: John Burrows, (X); John Grindrod
Married by Banns by: Willm. Wilson, Curate
Register: Marriages 1841 - 1842, Page 8, Entry 16
Source: LDS Family Search

Very often with Lancs. if you put addresses, names and occupations on google search (as from Marriage result above) you get other things relating...

Tried... howarth bagslate

(and below (yet another!) came up)

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1358299?d=asc&page=0

(Edmund Howarth 1844 - 1929)


Can you see why we get frustrated Mark, time and time again it happens, we end up searching, then repeating info. already previously found, and what you know!...


I don't have the 'knowledge' for Lancs., but have learn't that you can get results by 'playing' on below just putting names in other search boxes, rather than First Name Surname ones.

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html


(below gives you areas)

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/


(then search on below, you need to register (if you haven't already)

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

(you can check Births for Mother Maiden Name on above)


These are our main 'port of call' for Lancs. queries (well mine anyway!) I know you don't need to be told, but...(don't know what else to suggest!, lol)


You stated Death of John as 1876 (other 'Thread') what are details from that Cert., where is he 1871?...

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

(quite a few on above)


Edits

I might have posted before, but to find past 'Threads' for reference, or as a 'refresher' (things often get overlooked on them!) see left of page here, heading 'Tools' (then) My threads...or, just google! (john howarth mark genes) might be quicker!.

Below was starting point it seems...

I did wonder about occupation, on 1841 and 51 John a Labourer, then below a Collier?...

Chris :)

(Martha Howarth is my 3 x great grandmother who married William Yates in 1843)

Marriage: 9 Jan 1843 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
William Yates - (X), Full, Shoe Maker, Bachelor, Bagslate
Martha Howarth - (X), Full, Spinster, Bagslate
Groom's Father: John Yates, Labourer
Bride's Father: John Howarth, Collier
Witness: James Wallwork, (X); John Grindrod
Married by Banns by: Wm. Simpson, Curate
Register: Marriages 1842 - 1843, Page 166, Entry 331
Source: LDS Family Search


1851 (Find My Past)
William Yates Head Married Male 32 1819 Shoe Maker Bury, Lancashire, England
Martha Yates Wife Married Female 30 1821 Cotton Weaver Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Mary Yates Daughter - Female 7 1844 - Bury, Lancashire, England
John Yates Son - Male 6 1845 - Bury, Lancashire, England
Sarah Yates Daughter - Female 4 1847 - Bury, Lancashire, England
Joukin, Heap, Bury, Lancashire,

I am getting thoroughly confused between all the different threads on this family, with differing information re ages and birth places.

It would really really help if you could keep to only ONE thread, Mark ........... then we would not be repeating searches again and again as we try to get our heads around your family.

You know this family, we have to get up to scratch, and that often means going sideways from the question in your OP.

I see there have been previous suggestions that Sarah might not be the mother of the older children ......... that in fact John might have been previously married.

It really doesn't help us searching when we have to keep starting from scratch, and finding out that you already have information!

I have a feeling that Martha's mother was NOT called Sarah ................

Thank you. I have also found a relative this evening. Who is showing pictures of my 3x great grandfather and great grandmother if it can be confirmed

(yes, lol, was on other 'Thread' by Astra, can only suggest the links we have posted to 'play' around with...

Chris :)

(but Mark is aware of them!)


https://www.freereg.org.uk/

(another has some Lancashire)

snap Chris!!!

1841 Census

Name: John Howarth
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1796
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Rochdale
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Spotland Further Side

Piece: 551
Book: 6
Folio: 51
Page Number: 7

John Howarth 45 Fuller
Sarah Howarth 40
Martha Howarth 20 Throttle Piecer
Peggy Howarth 15 Stitcher??? <<<<<<< name is BETTY
Alice Howarth 15
Molly Howarth 10
James Howarth 3
John Howarth 5

all born in Lancashire

This is an excellent free site ......................

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Looking at the 1851 as posted by Chris, I would bet that the 2 youngest children, at least, are NOT John and Sarah's, but are illegitimate children of either Alice or Molly

from GRO Index .......... possible birth registrations of Sarah and Hannah, no mother's maiden name

HOWARTH, SARAH -
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in BURY, LANCASHIRE Volume 21 Page 295

HOWARTH, HANNAH -
GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in BURY LANCASHIRE Volume 21 Page 348



Unfortunately there are too many John and Edmund Howarths to be sure which one is the correct one

What does it say for Father on his Marriage?...Edits (no, too early for that)

Chris :)

(another of 1851)

1851 (Find My Past)
John Howarth Head Married Male 58 1793 Labourer Wardle
Sarah Howarth Wife Married Female 50 1801 - Todmorden, Yorkshire, England
Alice Howarth Daughter Unmarried Female 25 1826 Servant Wardle
Molly Howarth Daughter Unmarried Female 22 1829 Weaver Wardle
James Howarth Son Unmarried Male 15 1836 Weaver Wardle
John Howarth Son Unmarried Male 14 1837 Weaver Cotton England
Edmund Howarth Son Unmarried Male 7 1844
Sarah Howarth Daughter Unmarried Female 3 1848
Hannah Howarth Daughter Unmarried Female 0 1851
Hartley Street, Heap, Bury, Lancashire,


https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

(you can check Births for Mother Maiden Name on above)


http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

(another, if any use)


https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1336187

(John Howarth 1796-1876)


https://www.genesreunited.co.nz/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1332357?page=0

(Martha Howarth is my 3 x great grandmother who married William Yates in 1843)


Astra Report 13 Jan 2014 12:43

??

1841 census transcription details for: Smythy House, Rochdale, Spotland

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 551
Book/Folio: 6/51
Page: 7
Reg. District: Rochdale
Sub District: Spotland Further Side
Parish: Rochdale
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Rochdale
Address: Smythy House, Rochdale, Spotland
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
HOWARTH, John M 45 1796 Lancashire
HOWARTH, Sarah F 40 1801 Lancashire
HOWARTH, Martha F 20 1821 Lancashire
HOWARTH, Peggy F 15 1826 Lancashire
HOWARTH, Alice F 15 1826 Lancashire
HOWARTH, Molly F 10 1831 Lancashire
HOWARTH, James M 3 1838 Lancashire
HOWARTH, John M 5 1836 Lancashire


Marriage: 9 Jan 1843 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
William Yates - (X), Full, Shoe Maker, Bachelor, Bagslate
Martha Howarth - (X), Full, Spinster, Bagslate
Groom's Father: John Yates, Labourer
Bride's Father: John Howarth, Collier
Witness: James Wallwork, (X); John Grindrod
Married by Banns by: Wm. Simpson, Curate
Register: Marriages 1842 - 1843, Page 166, Entry 331
Source: LDS Family Search

I am finally back onto the above site and have located my family which I have recorded below for your information

John Howarth
England and Wales Census, 1851
Name:
John Howarth
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1851
Event Place:
Heap, Lancashire, England
Registration District:
Bury
Residence Note:
Hartley Street
Gender:
Male
Age:
58
Marital Status:
Married
Occupation:
Labourer
Relationship to Head of Household:
Head
Birth Year (Estimated):
1793
Birthplace:
Wardle,
Page Number:
28
Registration Number:
HO107
Piece/Folio:
2213 / 426
Affiliate Record Type:
Household
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
John Howarth ------------------------
Head
Male
58
Wardle,
Sarah Howarth
Wife
Female
50
Todmorden,
Alice Howarth
Daughter
Female
25
Wardle,
Molly Howarth
Daughter
Female
22
Wardle,
James Howarth
Son
Male
15
Wardle,
John Howarth
Son
Male
14
Spotland
Edmund Howarth
Son
Male
7
Heap,
Sarah Howarth
Daughter
Female
3
Heap,
Hannah Howarth
Daughter
Female
0
Heap,

I would be very much gratetfull if I could ask for assistance in possibly taking this mans ancestry back another generation, many thanks