Find Ancestors

(no worries AQ, bit 'here and there' meself also, lol)

(no don't think Ticknall feature either, getting to be a tangled web!)

Chris :)

Sorry Chris, not ignoring you! Just got sidetracked. I'm not sure the Ticknall one is the same. I need to look into it a bit more.

Great site for the Birmingham directory- not seen that before.

I'll come back to this in a few days. Thanks for your help.

(well did wonder on below, as she popped up!)

Chris :)

County Derbyshire
Place Ticknall
Church name St Thomas a'Becket
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 640
Baptism date 12 Mar 1826
Birth date
Person forename Anne
Person sex F
Person abode Ticknall
Father forename William
Father surname PHILLIPS
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Elizabeth

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

(FMP has a 1814 Marriage Ticknall William/Elizabeth Sanders)


(saw on below, from google search, also at New Summer Street)

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/1835_Directory_of_Birmingham

BUTTON (PEARL) MAKERS
Philips John, New Summer street

BUTTON MAKERS
Phillips William, 126, Summer lane


1861 (Find My Past)
Ann Phillips Head Unmarried Female 36 1825 Beer Retailer Derby, Derbyshire, England
Selina Barrett Servant Unmarried Female 21 1840 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Cross..., 20, New Summer Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire,


Deaths Jun 1859 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
PHILLIPS Elizabeth Birmingham 6d 85

(Probate for her to Ann, New Summer Street)


(Reuben Elliot Marriage 1855 to Mary Jane Barratt, her Abode, New Summer Street)

The other witness on Thomas Gibbons and Sarah marriage in 1855 I think, is Reubin Elliott.

Not sure if this is coincidence but there is this Reuben in 1851 living with Phillips- so are these Phillips related or just coincidence?

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
New Summer Street, Saint Stevens Birmingham, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Elizabeth Phillips Head Widow Female 63 1788 Beer Retailer Detchant, Derbyshire, England
Ann Phillips Daughter Unmarried Female 26 1825 - Derbyshire, England
Hannah Barber Servant Unmarried Female 24 1827 Servant Northamptonshire, England
Reuben Elliott Lodger Unmarried Male 23 1828 Barrel Filer Middlesex
Arthur Bassall Lodger Unmarried Male 23 1828 Steel Grinder Rugeley, Staffordshire,
-----------------------------

The same Phillips family in 1841

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
New Summer Street, St George, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Elizabeth Phillips Female 45 1796 -
Ann Phillips Female 17 1824 -
John Matthews Male 35 1806 Warwickshire, England
Charles Phillips Male 20 1821

Thanks Chris- chuffed with that baptism.Not that it's helping!, but still think could be my Elizabeth.

Thanks for the other info too- I had already seen those baptisms and disregarded.
-----------------------

I have had a small breakthrough- I think! Still working on it at the moment.

On the marriage of Thomas Gibbons and Sarah in 1855 one of the witnesses are Caroline Thompson. I wondered - if the 1841 census for Sarah was correct then she did have a sister, Caroline- was Caroline Thompson her sister?

Looking at the census I found this Caroline (also born Bristol):

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Clarence Buildings, New Hall Hill, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

William Thompson Head Married Male 21 1830 Brass Founder Birmingham,
Caroline Thompson Wife Married Female 20 1831 Tailoress Bristol, Gloucestershire,
Thomas Thompson Son - Male 0 1851 - Birmingham, Warwickshire,
---------------------------

I believe this is the same family in 1871 (although Caroline is listed as Catherine):

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Tindal Street, Great, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

William Thompson Head - Male 40 1831 Brass Caster Warwickshire, England
Catherine Thompson Wife - Female 40 1831 Tailoress Bristol, Gloucestershire
Emma E Thompson Daughter - Female 16 1855 - Warwickshire,
John Thompson Son - Male 14 1857 - Warwickshire, England
Lewis Thompson Son - Male 12 1859 - Warwickshire, England
Rhoda Thompson Daughter - Female 7 1864 - Warwickshire, England
----------------------------------

Then looking at the GRO for children's births:

THOMPSON, RHODA mmn: PHILLIPS
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 26
---------------------------

Catherine/ Caroline's marriage:

Name: Catherine Phillips
Gender: Female
Age: 19
Birth Date: abt 1830
Marriage Date: 31 May 1849
Marriage Place: Birmingham, St Philip, Warwickshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Birmingham, St Philip
Father: John Phillips Occ: Tailor
Spouse: William Thompson
------------------------------

So I'm now convinced I have the correct 1841 census for Sarah.

Just to add below, looking round briefly...

Chris :)

(Ancestry, Birmingham)

Elizabeth Pawell
Born 3 Nov 1854 (Baptism) 13 Jan 1856 Aston, St Peter and St Paul
Henry (Gun Stocker)
Sarah
(Abode, Holt Street)


Sorting from other Thomas Gibbons (with Gun occ. born 1826 on 1851) with Daughter Emily and Joseph, because it's confusing, lol...(your Thomas was 22 on 1855 Marriage)

Birth
GIBBINS, JOSEPH (DENT)
GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 290


Birth
Joseph Gibbins
(Baptism) 10 March 1845 (Born 15 Feb 1845) Birmingham, St Philip
Thomas (Gun Barrel Welder)
Sarah
(Abode, Brewery Street)


Emily Gibbons
(Born)10 Mar 1847 (Baptism) 5 Apr 1847 Birmingham, St Philip
Thomas (Gun Barrel Smith)
Sarah
(Abode, Palmer Street)


Edits (if them below, that is)

1851 (Find My Past)
Thomas Gibbons Head Married Male 25 1826 Gun Barrel Maker Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Sarah Gibbons Wife Married Female 25 1826 - Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Joseph Gibbons Son - Male 6 1845 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Emila Gibbons Daughter Unmarried Female 4 1847 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England


(Marriage FMP)

First name(s) SARAH
Last name DENT
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1843
SARAH DENT married one of these people
Thomas Gibbins

Thanks Shirley. That's a shame, thought it might have an address or an occupation for Henry (or even describe him as deceased- just so I know I'm on the right track)

It's text only Austin - no image

Wondering if this is a baptism for Elizabeth/ Betsy. It's after the marriage of Sarah and Thomas Gibbons, but the birth was before. I can't see the original image- if anyone can see it can you let me know please.

Name: Elizabeth Powell
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 3 Nov 1854
Baptism Date: 13 Jan 1856
Baptism Place: Aston Juxta Birmingham,Warwick,England
Father: Henry Powell
Mother: Sarah

Sarah's son John, is a complicated man- he later uses the names Powell and Gibbons, and also the firsts name John/ Henry/ Henry John. I still can't see his birth though.

I'm thinking you're right Shirley, and perhaps the births weren't registered

Yes that seems to them in 1871. In 1881 she's back to being born Bristol:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Court 3 House, 2, Bordesley Park Road, Aston, Warwickshire, England

Thomas Gibbons Head Married Male 47 1834 Gun Barrel Filer -
Sarah Gibbons Wife Married Female 52 1829 - Bristol, Gloucestershire,
Sarah Powell Grand Daughter Single Female 6 1875 Scholar

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Back of Bordesley Park Road, Aston, Warwickshire, England

Thomas Gibbons Head - Male 37 1834 - Warwickshire, England Occ gun maker
Sarah Gibbons Wife - Female 44 1827 - Warwickshire, England
John Gibbons Son - Male 18 1853 - Warwickshire, England
Elizabeth Gibbons Daughter - Female 16 1855 - Warwickshire occ paper box maker

Wow- thanks Chris, I'll take a look at that.

Shirley- Thanks for taking a look. I think that is the son of Rees Powell and Mary Phillips:

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Tysoaf, Village, Crickadarn, Builth, Breconshire, Wales

Rees Powell Head Married Male 43 1818 Farmer Of 80 Acres Crickadarn, Brecknockshire
Mary Powell Wife Married Female 43 1818 - -
Mary A Powell Daughter - Female 15 1846 - Crickadarn, Brecknockshire, Wales
Rees Powell Son - Male 13 1848 Scholar Crickadarn, Brecknockshire, Wales
Margaret Powell Daughter - Female 11 1850 Scholar Crickadarn, Brecknockshire,
John Powell Son - Male 9 1852 Scholar Crickadarn, Brecknockshire, Wales
David Powell Son - Male 7 1854 - Crickadarn, Brecknockshire, Wales
Elizabeth Powell Daughter - Female 5 1856 - Crickadarn, Brecknockshire, Wales
William Powell Son - Male 3 1858 - Crickadarn, Brecknockshire, Wales
Roger Morgan Servant - Male 50 1811 Carter Gwenddwr, Brecknockshire, Wales

Well if she didn't marry till 1855 this could be the son john

POWELL, JOHN PHILLIPS Order
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in THE BUILTH Volume 26 Page 295

The reg district doesn't match but then census info is often misleading

Of course both births may not have been registered

Lol- thanks Chris, it's definitely a rainy day one. Appreciate your help.

Been looking AQ, but out shortly, as you say needs time (good job they're not going anywhere, lol)

Chris :)

(hastily added, excuse scruffy, hope he weren't below!)

Metropolis.
A BIiRMINGHAM GUN MAKER IN TfOuliLE.-At the Mansion House, on Monday, Thomas Gibbons, a well- dressed young juan, who described himself as a gun barrel filer, living at Birmingham, and Elizabeth Bittersale, a showily-attired prostitute..
27 January 1858 - Birmingham Daily Post - Birmingham, West Midlands

Hi All, I'm trying to find out about the Sarah below- hoping you can help.

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
High Park Road, Harborne, Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England

Thomas Gibbons Head Married Male 27 1834 Gun Barrel Filer Birmingham,
Sarah Gibbons Wife Married Female 33 1828 Bristol Gloucester
John Gibbons Son - Male 9 1852 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire
Betsy Gibbons Daughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire,
----------------------------

I believe this is Sarah's marriage to Thomas Gibbons (Image on Ancestry). I can't access the image at the moment, but if I remember correctly it has Sarah as widowed and her father's occupation listed as a tailor:

Name Sarah Powell
Gender Female
Age 28
Birth Date abt 1827
Marriage Date 23 Jul 1855
Marriage Place Birmingham, St Philip, Warwickshire, England
Father John Phillips
Spouse Thomas Gibbons
------------------------------

Looking at a possible previous marriage for a Sarah Phillips to a Mr Powell I found this (Image on FMP):

First name(s) Sarah
Last name Phillips
Age Minor
Year 1843
Event Marriage
Marriage year 1843
Marriage date 11 Sep 1843
Residence Pentre
Father's name(s) John Phillips (Tailor)
Place Swansea, St John
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Spouse's name(s) Henry Powell
Spouse's age Minor
Spouse's father's name(s) John Powell

Witnesses: Stephen Davies & Watkin Jones.
---------------------------------

I found this possible 1841 census but Sarah's age is wrong (unless the enumerator rounded her age up instead of down?)- remember she was a minor in 1843 so under 21.

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Bretts Court, St James, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Sarah Phillips Female 45 1796 Somerset, England
John Phillips Male 40 1801 Tailor Somerset, England
Sarah Phillips Female 20 1821 Somerset, England
Elizabeth Phillips Female 15 1826 Somerset, England
Caroline Phillips Female 13 1828 Somerset, England
---------------------------------------

So first problem- If Sarah married Henry Powell in 1843, where is she (or Henry) in 1851.

Second problem- the children on the 1861, I can't see their births listed in Birmingham/ Warwickshire under Powell or Gibbons.

It's driving me a bit nuts- it would be great if someone else could take a look. There's no rush, I think this could be a long one! :-)