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On your other thread there was mention of a Jesse Osborne? looks likel that was William T's brother?

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Rye Foreign, Rye, Sussex, England



John Osborne Head Married Male 43 1848 Farm Baliff Sussex, England Transcription
Emma A Osborne Wife Married Female 40 1851 - Kent, England
Jesse J C Osborne Son Single Male 16 1875 Agricultural Labourer Kent, England
Lewis G Osborne Son - Male 14 1877 Agricultural Labourer Kent, England
Frederick Osborne Son - Male 13 1878 Scholar Kent, England
Barbara M G Osborne Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Kent,
May Osborne Daughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar Sussex, England
Charles Osborne Son - Male 7 1884 Scholar Sussex, England
William T Osborne Son - Male 4 1887 Scholar Sussex, England
Albert E Osborne Son - Male 1 1890 - Rye, Sussex, England

Marriages Sep 1909 (>99%)

JUDGES Bertha Lilian Strood 2a 1391
ORSBOURN William Thomas Strood 2a 1391

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census
1 Prospect Cottages Shorne Near Gravesend, Shorne, Kent, England

William Tho Orsboune Head Married Male Gardener Market 25 1886 Sussex Nye ( Rye)
Bertha Lilian Orsboune Wife Married Female - 25 1886 Kent Shorne
Winifred B L Orsboune Daughter - Female - 0 1911 -

Births Jun 1886 (>99%)
ORSBOURN William Thomas Rye 2b 8

It's easily done John :-)

Wouldn't if be great if all the people we search for had unusual names? I have so many Williams in my tree that it would be a blessing if the parents had named at least one of them Claudius or similar rather than carry on using William father to son to grandson.

I wonder! 1939 register for E L Coomber Living with Osbourn... ( incl William J Osbourn)

Osbourn Household (9 People)
4 Castle Lane , Gravesend M.B., Kent, England

Edna L Coomber (Osbourn) 07 May 1919 Female Fitter Fireproof Paper Heavy Worker Single 217 5
William T Osbourn 10 May 1885 Male Verger General Labourer Married 217 1
Bertha L Osbourn 11 Mar 1885 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 217 2
William J Osbourn 23 Feb 1912 Male Lorry Driver & Market Gardener Heavy Worker Single 217 3
Lewis A Osbourn 01 Dec 1913 Male Estate Workman Single 217 4
Doris Coyne (Williams,Orsbourn) 27 Mar 1922 Female Domestic Service Single 217 6
Winifred B L King (Osbourn) 22 Dec 1910 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 217 7
Ellen M Miller 22 Oct 1915 Female Fitter Fireproof Piping Heavy Worker Married 217 8

I think this is Edna
births Jun 1919 (>99%)

Orsbourn Edna L Judges Strood 2a 918

marriage

First name(s) EDNA L
Last name ORSBOURN
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1942
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ EDNA L ORSBOURN married
Cecil H Coomber
Spouse's last name Coomber
District Chatham
District number -
County Kent
Country England
Volume 2A
Volume as transcribed 2A
Page number 3247
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Great Britain, England

Nyx. I think I will have to forget finding this William John Osborne , obviously Clarence Frederick Osborne is only a stepfather to Margaret Smith (Osborne) b 1916 so it isn't a blood line .I do have the line of Clarence F Osborne so my friend will just have to be content with that. Obviously I myself will be curious to find the connection To Dorothy Margaret Osborne nee Smith. I am also unsure as to how many children DMO had or if Margaret was her only child. Feeling so frustrated now

Nyx. Just been going through my paperwork again and looked at the marriage cert for Dorothy & Donald Small and to my horror the witnesses are William John Osborne and the other one a E L Coomber, so it wasn't John ,so sorry, I just don't know how I read it wrongly, must be my age!!!

That makes sense :-) now all we have to do is find the link :-)

Nyx. Looking at the 1939 register. It states 7 people in Caravan. I have been looking at births for Osborne mmn Smith came up with the following. John Osborne Dec 1928 Dartford, you found his birth as 27 Nov 1928 so could be the one. Esme b 1929 Dartford. Billy Osborne b 1931 Bromley, Grace b June Bromley Frederick b 1936 Bromley so that makes 5 children + Mother Grace and the 7th possibly Father John Osborne. You had 7 listed. . It must have been father John Osborne who was the witness at the wedding of Dorothy M Osborne nee Smith to Donald Small. they would have been of similar age.

Hopefully the birth cert will help.

I had a look for deaths for a Grace Osborne, in Kent, but if they were travellers they may have moved out of county after 1939, and there are so many Grace Smiths!

Deaths Mar 1966 (>99%)
OSBORNE GRACE 68 CROYDON 5A 939

Deaths Jun 1968 (>99%)
OSBORNE GRACE 73 THANET 5F 714

Deaths Jun 1972 (>99%)
Osborne Grace 8No1914 Lewisham 5d 614

Deaths Dec 1973 (>99%)
OSBORNE GRACE 17JE1892 CANTERBURY 5F 326

Nyx. I am getting anxious now about receiving the birth cert for Margaret Smith who called herself Osborne with mother of Smith and hopefully it will tell me where mother ? Smith lived, perhaps I have latched on to the wrong Smith living in Southend. I am dependant on the information my friend can give me about his wife's family. I had latched onto the wrong Lewis family for 2 yrs before the 1911 census was released and I found my great Aunt who was born after 1901. I am 80 now so I just hope Lady Luck is kind to me until the 1921 is out, haha

John it's just very frustrating that Grace's birth date is not on the register. I'm surprised at that but maybe she just didn't know it?

Now you have found something very interesting because when I said I would do his dear departed wife's line , his words to me was they were all travellers and lived in Southend, Seeing what you have found now has hit the nail on the head, living in a caravan!,!! I found a Dorothy Margaret Smith living in Southend but there is no Grace listed on the 1911 census, so she couldn't be a sister of Dorothy. Maybe she was a cousin

John I'm waiting for the 1921 also :-) to see who one of my grandfathers was living with , 'wife' number two or someone completely different .

I think this may be the John Osborne born 1928 mmn Smith

Household (7 People)
Kestonct Farm Caravan Church Road , Orpington U.D., Kent, England

Grace Osborne - Female Farm Field Work Married 10 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
John Osborne 27 Nov 1928 Male Not At School Single 10 3
Grace Osborne 03 Jun 1933 Female Not At School Single 10 4
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Frederick Osborne - Male Under School Age Single 10 7

Marriages Mar 1928 (>99%)

Osborne John Smith Bromley 2a 864
SMITH Grace Osborne Bromley 2a 864

Good day to you Nyx. I hadn't thought of that, will have to find if any age limit. I have found the following, Bearing in mind Clarence F Osborne and Dorothy M Smith married in 1919, there is a Dorothy M Osborne b Sept 1920 Croydon mother Smith , Then of course perhaps John Osborne b 1928 Dartford and Esme b Sept 1929 Dartford mother Smith, Just wonder if these 3 were their children. I now acknowledge that Margaret the 1st born to Dorothy was registered as Smith but called herself Osborne. When there are complications like this how I wish I was a fly on the wall, 3 yrs is a long time to wait until the 1921 census to come out when getting older

Morning John I looked at that one, but discounted him from being the witness on the marriage cert in 1944 as he would only have been 16/17 and I would have assumed a witness would have to be of full age which would have been 21? Perhaps worth finding out if a witness had to be an adult?

Nyx. I have just had another look and found a John Osborne b Dec1928 Dartford mother Smith, this could be a strong possibility that he was a son of C F and D M Osborne, , who by then could have left Southend and living in Dartford or Gravesend.

I had the same problem, I wondered if he could have been a brother of Clarence F and he had kept in touch with Dorothy because it looks like Clarence went to the Brighton area and had another family, I don't think he and Dorothy got divorced but then she remarried the year before Clarence F died

Not coming up with anything on John Osborne, but as there are quite a few Osbornes in the area it's hard to tell.

Hi Nyx, many thanks for your reply, still doing this Osborne line as you can see.Obviously Margaret always called herself Osborne and that is what the family knew her as. I can only go down the Smith line for her and her mother Dorothy . I have sent for the birth cert for Margaret so no doubt it will be father Unknown. I have gone down Clarence Frederick Osborne line so can give that to my friend even though she wasn't an Osborne. Just wondered if she was legally adopted that's all. I did notice when I received the marriage cert for Dorothy Margaret Osborne to Donald Small in 1944 that one of the witnesses was a John Osborne, unsure if he was a son or a relation to Clarence F Osborne

Hi John, yes there's no reason why Margaret wouldn't have been able to use the Osbourne name. It's the name she was known by it would seem, and I don't think a birth cert would have been asked for to show differently.

Formal adoption didn't start until 1927, so there isn't likely to be any paperwork even if Clarence F did 'adopt' Margaret. It's common to see children take step father's name on the census' and they may or may not marry under that name.

Can anyone help me please regarding an adoption. I have established that it was not Frederick Osborne that I wanted but a Clarence Frederick Osborne who married Dorothy Margaret Smith in Rochford 1919. Dorothy had a daughter Margaret b Rochford 1917 but I couldn't find her under Osborne, only Smith, yet on her marriage certificate in 1935 she was down as Margaret Osborne and gave her father as being Frederick Osborne, by law could she have done this so I wonder if she was adopted