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Looking for the family of Herbert Simmonds son of Frederick Hammond Simmonds scripture reader in Birmingham. Herbert was a talented baritone who performed all over the country in the 20s.

Herbert Simmonds in the Birmingham, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1912
Name: Herbert Simmonds
Baptism Date: 7 Aug 1885
Baptism Place: Birmingham, St Barnabas, Warwickshire, England
Father: Fredric Hammond Simmonds (Scripture Reader)
Mother: Elizabeth Simmonds

1901 Census

Name: Herbert Simmonds
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: Frederick H Simmonds
Mother: Elizabeth Simmonds
Birth Place: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Search Photos: Search for 'Birmingham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: Lady Wood
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2828
Folio: 89
Page Number: 41
Household schedule number: 272
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick H Simmonds 45, scripture read & parish clerk
Elizabeth Simmonds 38
Herbert Simmonds 15
Frederick R Simmonds 7
Thomas Dugmore 24, boarder

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His Baptism

Name: Herbert Simmonds
Baptism Date: 7 Aug 1885
Baptism Place: Birmingham, St Barnabas, Warwickshire, England
Father: Fredric Hammond Simmonds
Mother: Elizabeth Simmonds
Reference Number: DRO 83
Archive Roll: M172


Andy

A signed photo postcard of him on sale here. $22.00 US.

https://www.taminoautographs.com/products/simmonds-herbert

PM from Sally......

"He married Kathleen Mennie and had one daughter Kathleen Joyce. Looking for descendants"

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I am nor seeing a marriage for Herbert to a Mennie.

Is the daughter the one born 1924 Newhaven, Sussex?

Do you know who the daughter married?

It is best to reply on here Sally, so that other members can read your reply.

To reply on here, type in the white box at the bottom.....and click on "Submit"

Prickles.:o))

Daughter's birth?

Births Dec 1924 (>99%)
Simmonds Kathleen J Mennie Newhaven 2b 229

PM from Sally

"Daughter was Kathleen Joyce born 10th October 1924. Never married and only child"

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As Kathleen was an only child and never married..........exactly who are you looking for?

Descendants of who??

Daughter Kathleen on the 1939 Register.......

Household (1 Person) 10/11 Y M C A Hostel Dale End , Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire, England

Kathleen J Simmonds 10 Oct 1924 Female Clerk & Typist - 108 50


Above her is........

Household (1 Person) 10/11 Y M C A Hostel Dale End , Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire, England

Kathleen M Simmonds 23 Oct 1896 Female Widow Manager Of Restaurant

I wonder if the birth year is out by 2 years and this is Mother Kathleen....

??
Births Dec 1894 (>99%)
Mennie Kathleen Mable Basford 7b 204

Kathleen Mabel Simmonds in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Kathleen Mabel Simmonds
Birth Date: 23 Oct 1894
Date of Registration: Mar 1976
Age at Death: 81
Registration district: Windsor
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume: 19
Page: 0575s


Kathleen Mabel Simmonds in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Kathleen Mabel Simmonds
Death Date: 7 Feb 1976
Death Place: Pangbourne Reading
Probate Date: 10 Mar 1977
Registry: Brighton

Of 39 Hartslock Ct, Pangbourne, Reading.....£284

Herbert Simmonds in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Herbert Simmonds
Birth Date: abt 1885
Date of Registration: Sep 1930
Age at Death: 45
Registration district: Kingston
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 500


Herbert Simmonds in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Herbert Simmonds
Death Date: 6 Sep 1930
Death Place: Surrey, England
Probate Date: 8 Nov 1930
Registry: London, England


Of 147 Glenister ParK Road, Streatham, Surrey.

Died 6th Sep 1930 on the Kingston By-Pass Road, Coombe, Surrey,

To Kathleen Mabel Mennie (Spinster) Effects: £390 2s 1d

So there's the proof that Herbert didn't actually marry Kathleen.

That explains a lot! Kathleen Joyce died recently and I have some family photos of the Simmonds and have no one to give them to. Her mother seems to have had no contact with the rest of the Simmonds family after her father's death. It's a sad story.

I think i know why the mother had nothing to do with the rest of the Simmonds family.

Just give me a while to figure it out.

Prickles. ;o))

Ok, this is my theory........

On Frederick Hammond Simmonds marriage record to Elizabeth Shaw in 1884, it gives her age as 22.........so born 1862.

On the 1901 and 1911 census.......Elizabeth Simmonds born abt 1863.

I am wondering if Hebert married Minnie Vaughan in 1910........

Marriages Jun 1910 (>99%)
SIMMONDS Herbert King's N. 6c 636
VAUGHAN Minnie King's N. 6c 636

Herbert and Minnie on the 1911 census.......

Herbert Simmonds in the 1911 England Census
Name: Herbert Simmonds
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire
Civil Parish: Harborne
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street address: 137 Park Hill Road, Harborne, Birmingham
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 1
Estimated Marriage Year: 1910
Occupation: Engineers Draughtman & Costing Clerk
Registration district: Kings Norton
Registration District Number: 383
Sub-registration district: Edgbaston
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Household schedule number: 74
Piece: 17938
Household Members:
Name Age
Herbert Simmonds 25
Minnie Simmonds 24

??
Births Jun 1886 (>99%)
VAUGHAN Minnie Birmingham 6d 40

A son born to the marriage........

Births Jun 1916 (>99%)
Simmonds Kenneth H Vaughan Kings N. 6d 166


This is possibly Herbert's mother on the 1939 Register with Minnie

Simmonds Household (1 Person) **(all 3 people are at the same address)** 95 Hunton Road , Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire, England

Minnie Simmonds 07 May 1886 Shopkeeper (Grocery General Engineer) Widow
Kenneth H Simmonds Single 30 Apr 1916 Progress Clerk Drop Forging Trade
Elizabeth Simmonds 10 Sep 1862 Invalid Widow

So that would be the reason why Herbert wasn't free to marry Kathleen Mennie.

What do you think?

That looks good!

Kenneth married

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1943 (>99%)
Simmonds Kenneth H Wilkins Birmingham 6d 312
Wilkins Hilda M Simmonds Birmingham 6d 312

One child born 1947. To recent to post on open board.



Name: Kenneth Herbert Simmonds
Death Date: 25 Apr 1988
Death Place: Littlehampton W Sx
Probate Date: 12 Jul 1988
Registry: Winchester

Effects £178000.!!

Andy

Wow! I think you could be right. What you are suggesting is that Kathleen Joyce had a half brother that she never knew about. What I can't figure out is that Herbert Simmonds was a well-known baritone who performed in concerts all over the UK so how did he manage to avoid a scandal? Thanks for your interest. This is really fascinating.

Possible marriage and 2014 UK Companies House Directors and 2014 ER details for the daughter born 1947........Sent by PM.

Births of 2 children also sent by PM.

The Address given on Kenneth Herbert Simmonds probate is....

48 Tennyson Av, Littlehampton, W Sx

Hilda Margaret Simmonds in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Hilda Margaret Simmonds
Birth Date: 11 May 1923
Date of Registration: Jul 1986
Age at Death: 63
Registration district: Worthing
Inferred County: West Sussex
Volume: 18
Page: 2076



Hilda Margaret Simmonds in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Hilda Margaret Simmonds
Death Date: 23 Jul 1986
Death Place: Rustington W Sx
Probate Date: 5 Sep 1986
Registry: Winchester

Of 48 Tennyson Av, Rustington, W Sx...........Not Exceeding £40000


1939 Register Transcription
Household (1 Person) City Hospital Yardley Green Road , Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire, England

Hilda M (Welkins) ** Wilkins on the image** Simmonds 11 Feb 1923 Hospital Nurse Probati

Married 6/6/1943

Just to polish things off....

Minnie Simmonds in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Minnie Simmonds
Birth Date: abt 1887
Date of Registration: Mar 1964
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Solihull
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 1137


Minnie Simmonds in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Minnie Simmonds
Death Date: 28 Jan 1964
Death Place: Warwickshire, Warwick, England
Probate Date: 4 Mar 1964
Registry: Birmingham, England

Of 10 Lode Lane, Sollihul, Warwickshire......Widow

To Kenneth Herbert Simmonds accounts clerk....Effects: £526

Edit: A reply to say a simple "thank you" for the 2 PM's i sent would have been appreciated!