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Hi All

Had been trying to crack a mystery of my GGdad George Edward Agar for 10 years finally have! Hoping to now put some meat on the bones and find out more about them ... really hoping I may find some living relatives and possibly some pictures of my ancestors.

I've come to find his mother was Amelia Harrison (b. 1970, Poplar) who later lived in Martindale Road, West Ham.

She was married to George F Sweeney in 1888 in Bethnal Green. She had 1 daughter in 1889 called Alice. George F is always listed as born around 1870 so I cant find an obvious death before 1892 and what comes next.

By Oct 1892 she had my GGDad George Edward Agar - no father listed and then in 1895 Henry Agar with father listed as George (can't find anything to confirm him elsewhere) in Martindale Rd West Ham.

1901 she was living with Henry Tapfield a few doors down in Martindale Road. She had several more children with him, married him in 1916 and died in 1917.

Would be really grateful if anyone can provide any info on the Harrison's, George Agar, Sweeneys or Tapfields.

Thanks in advance.

Zoe

????


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Newton Street, Canning Town, West Ham, Essex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Sweeney Head Married Male 21 1870 Dock Labourer Walworth, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Susan Sweeney Wife Married Female 20 1871 - Poplar, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Alice Sweeney Daughter Single Female 0 1891 - Canning Town, Essex, England

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
36, Martindale Road, West Ham, Essex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Amelia Sweeney Head Widow Female 30 1871 - Poplar, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Alice Sweeney Daughter Single Female 10 1891 - Canning Town, Essex, England
Transcription
George Sweeney Son Single Male 7 1894 - Canning Town, Essex, England
Transcription
Emily Sweeney Daughter Single Female 5 1896 - Canning Town, Essex, England
Transcription
Emma Sweeney Daughter Single Female 0 1901 - Canning Town, Essex, England
Transcription
Henry Sweeney Son Single Male 27 1874 Coal Porter Canning Town, Essex, England

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
14 Martindale Road Custom House West Ham, West Ham, Essex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Henry Tapfield Head Married Male Fireman Ship 44 1867 Tidal Basin Essex
Transcription
Amelia Tapfield Wife Married Female - 40 1871 Poplar London Middlesex
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Emma Susan Tapfield Daughter - Female - 11 1900 Tidal Basin Essex
Transcription
Elizabeth Tapfield Daughter - Female - 6 1905 West Ham Essex
Transcription
Rosey Tapfield Daughter - Female - 3 1908 West Ham Essex
Transcription
George Tapfield Son Single Male Boiler Scaler 18 1893 Tidal Basin Essex

So you're saying that your GGDad George was born Agar in 1892 then became Sweeney on the 1901 census then Tapfield in 1911! Poor guy!

SWEENEY, GEORGE EDWARD AGER HARRISON Order
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 155

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=842&p=topics.researchresources.brick-20-walls

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/976470

(above and possibly others coming up on google search)

Chris :)

Always worth a check in 'Search All Member Trees' (top right of page here, under 'Search') to see if any other members are sharing names.

Seems to be the same George, a bit of bad lad:-

England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment

First name(s) George
Last name Sweeney
Age 29
Birth year 1870
Occupation Dealer
Year 1899
Date 13 Oct 1899
Intended release: 13 Jan 1902
Court West Ham
Place Essex
Victim's first name(s) Samuel Trundle
Source A Calendar Of Prisoners Tried At The Assizes
Series HO140
Piece number 191
Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935

Previous:
7 days 5th March 1890 West Ham Police (Stealing boots) as George Francis Sweeney
Calendar months 21st February 1894 Chelmsford Sessions (Stealing goods) as George Sweeney
Calendar months 23rd February 1897 Woolwich Police Court (stealing goods) as George Sweeney
Calendar months 13th July 1898 Chelmsford Sessions (Stealing money) as George Sweeney

Same George in 1908- still up to bad tricks. (Definitely the same man as Previous convictions are listed the same as above:

Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Piece number 263
Series HO140
Source A Calendar Of Prisoners Tried At The Michaelmas Quarter Sessions For The Year 1908
First name(s) George Francis
Last name Sweeney Or Smith
Year 1908
Birth year 1870
Occupation Fireman
County Cardiff
Court Cardiff
Age 38
Date 07 Oct 1908
Victim's first name(s) Sarah
Victim's last name Collins
Convicted- 4 months hard labour

Here's what I DO know for certain because I have actual records:

Marriage - January 23rd 1916, St Luke’s Church, Victoria Dock, Parish of West Ham.
George Edward Agar – 23 – Bachelor – Fireman (as in merchant navy) – 11 Rendle Road – Father, George Agar – Fireman Ellen Blackman – 24 – Spinster – 11 Rendle Road – Father, Edward Blackman (this is incorrect, she was married twice, so father and maiden name is Coleman / Colbourne) – Labourer. Witnesses – A Johnson and Rose Louisa St. Pier (Rose appears to have lived close Ellen to in a census and this is her maiden name, so assuming a friend rather than relative).


(in relation to posting above (Ancestry link) wondered about below for Father George)


http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7137507

Reference:
ADM 188/240/162791

Description: Name Ager, George
Official Number: 162791
Place of Birth: Barnsbury, Middlesex
Date of Birth: 02 August 1876
1891

Chris :)

Edits (from trying to decipher their image viewer above, Occupation could be him below)

1891 (Find My Past)
Florence Ager Head Single Female 21 1870 Mantle Maker Islington, Middlesex, England
Edward H Ager Brother Single Male 17 1874 Apprentice Islington, Middlesex, England
George Ager Brother Single Male 14 1877 Telegraph Messenger Islington, Middlesex, England
House name Queens Cottages
Parish Islington
County London
Registration district Islington
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 166
Folio 100
Page 65


Births Dec 1873 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Ager Edward Henry Islington 1b 224

(Brother above)

Edward Henry Ager
abt 1873 19 Nov 1892 Mary Jane O'Connell St Silas, Pentonville

(his Marriage, Ancestry London above, Father , Thomas Ager, occ. Lawyer's Clerk. Dead., witnesses couple on Marriage below (Sister)


Marriages Jun 1891 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
Ager Florence Martha
Tayler Richard Thomas Holborn 1b 1036


All UK, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972 (Ancestry)

Geo Ager 1914-1920 World War I (162791 Rank/Rating C.P.O.)


1939 Register (Find My Past)

26 Fendyke Road , Erith M.B., Kent,
George E Agar 03 Oct 1888 Male Charge Hand (Fire Department) Married
Ellen R Agar 26 Aug 1916 Female Munition Packer Single
George E Agar 09 Feb 1919 Male Lorry Driver Single

Again in 1910- he travelled around quite a bit! (probably more - all on FMP)

Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Piece number 21
Series MEPO6
Source Habitual Criminals Register 1910
First name(s) George Francis or Harry
Last name Sweeney or Smith
Year 1910
Birth year 1871
Occupation Costermonger
Place Southampton
Birth date ? ? 1871
Date ? ? 1910
12 months imprisonment

...... on Saturday, Robert Lemon, 17, Harry H'ren, 19, labourers, of Emily-street, Canning Town, were charged with wounding George Sweeney.—Sweeney is general dealer who lives at Clarkson-street. Canning Town, and now walks with stick on account of injuries
30 July 1897 - Chelmsford Chronicle - Chelmsford, Essex, England - (article mentions a sister called May , 16 years old.)................




1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
21, Forty Acre Lane, West Ham, Essex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Sweeney Head Married Male 37 1844 Costermonger Southwark, Surrey, England
Transcription
Harriet Sweeney Wife Married Female 31 1850 - Greenwich, Kent, England
Transcription
George G Sweeney Son Single Male 11 1870 Scholar Walworth, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Sophia A Sweeney Daughter Single Female 4 1877 - Plaistow, Essex, England
Transcription
Alexander W Sweeney Son Single Male 2 1879 - Plaistow, Essex, England


SWEENEY, ALEXANDER WILLIAM HARRIS Order
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in WEST HAM UNION Volume 04A Page 41

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
SWEENEY, SOPHIA ANN HARRIS Order
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in WEST HAM UNION Volume 04A Page 120

SWEENEY, GEORGE FRANCIS HARRIS Order
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D

Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)
Harris Harriett Newington 1d 325
Sweeney George Newington 1d 325


Daughter May was born in 1881:

SWEENEY, MAY MARTHA HARRIS Order
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 125


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Newton Street, Canning Town, West Ham, Essex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Sweeney Head Married Male 49 1842 General Dealer Kent, England
Transcription
Mauriel Sweeney Wife Married Female 40 1851 - Greenwich, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Sophia Sweeney Daughter Single Female 15 1876 - Canning Town, Middlesex, England
Transcription
May Sweeney Daughter Single Female 10 1881 - Canning Town, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Alexander Sweeney Son Single Male 12 1879 - Canning Town, London, England
Transcription
John Sweeney Son Single Male 8 1883 - Canning Town, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Albert Sweeney Son Single Male 6 1885 - Canning Town, London, England
Transcription
Thomas Sweeney Son Single Male 0 1891 - -



George has left home but still on the same street:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Newton Street, Canning Town, West Ham, Essex, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Sweeney Head Married Male 21 1870 Dock Labourer Walworth, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Susan Sweeney Wife Married Female 20 1871 - Poplar, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Alice Sweeney Daughter Single Female 0 1891 - Canning Town, Essex, England

SWEENEY, ALICE AMELIA HARRISON Order
GRO Reference: 1890 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 144

Not sure why Amelia is calling herself Susan in 1891 ??

Marriages Sep 1888 (>99%)
Downs Phoebe Elizabeth Bethnal Green 1c 329 Scan available - click to view
***Harrison Amelia Bethnal Green 1c 329 Scan available - click to view
James Arthur William Bethnal Green 1c 329 Scan available - click to view
***SWEENEY George Francis Bethnal Green 1c 329

Dea x

Snippet here :

.......lie renewed the row, striking Mrs. Ager with an iron bar. She went to the Poplar Hospital, and was still an out-patient. George Ager was next summoned for assaulting Poisdon.—A number of witnesses were called on either side, and in the result Mr. Gillespie
17 August 1895 - Essex Newsman - Chelmsford, Essex, England

I will try to put it into keepsafes and post a link below.

Dea x

EDIT - this should be the link?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/43292662

If nothing else, it puts her with George Ager in 1895 !!

Dea x

Hi Folks ... thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I'll have a proper read and make full replies later on when not at work.

Very excited to have cracked the brick wall ... Chris posted my old thread (there are many of those dotted about) about my ggdad george ... I had no idea of Amelia's (sometimes called Susan to further complicate things) maiden name until last year or so and even less of an idea that she'd been involved with Sweeney, Agars and Tapfields!

Anyhoo, very much appreciate your replies and will look into them shortly.

Zoe

Apologies for the delay.

Thank you SAFC, those census records do relate to my family. I had ordered the birth cert and that too is a definite from the DOB. Doesn’t list a father for George though – that’s left blank. The name George Ager is in the baby name column, and mother Amelia Sweeney nee. Harrison. Address is 27 Custom Street.

Austin Q, thanks for the links to the records on FMP – I didn't know those existed!!!I’ve got s subscription now so managed to read them all. Interesting to know – I’d assumed he had died which is where George Agar/er came in … I have found a possible death just prior to Amelia’s marriage to Henry Tapfield in 1917 so I wonder if she still knew of Sweeney and knew of his death. Cant think of another reason to wait 20 odd years to marry.

ChrisHo – I’d ruled that George out since he was still alive past 917 according to that military record – I’d assumed perhaps something had happened to him late 1890s for Amelia to move in with Tapfield. Really unsure how to verify anything with George. I'll keep those records in mind though and do a bit more digging.

Dea – Thank you too for that record / article regarding Amelia and George- really helpful to be able to place them together somewhere since they never are on any censuses. Nice to know something of their daily lives. In regards to Amelia calling herself Susan on 1891 census, she also calls herself Susan in 1899 with the birth of her first son (Charles on bmd / George on baptism Tapfield Harrison).

Any suggestions to where to go next with finding out about George Ager / Agar?

**on George Edward Ager’s birth cert in 1892 he is not listed at all,just a line through father columns.
**on Henry Agar’s birth cert and baptism in 1895 he is clearly listed as George Agar (Labourer)
**on George Agar’s marriage cert in Jan 1916, Father: George Agar, Fireman
**on Henry’s marriage cert in Feb 1916 as Henry Agar, Costermonger.

I’m assuming they knew their father as they always called themselves Agar and didn’t resort to using Tapfield.

Any suggestions to where to go next to find out more about them all … for instance I didn’t know about the prison registers, so anything like that.

Again, thanks for your time everyone :-D

Thank you

Zoe

^^^