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John married Mary Carr 1804 - 1882. Both born Ireland.
Mary is shown on 1851 census in Wigan as married. But John is not there at the time.

By the next census 1861 she is a widow as he died 1857? They had 4 children. Catherine, Peter, Mary and Bridget. All born in Ireland.

I have quite a lot of information about all of them apart from John.

Can't seem to find him! I'm wondering if he stayed in Ireland.

Any ideas??

Where does the information re his age come from? Is it from the marriage certificate? If it is, where did they marry and what was John's occupation?

Where does the death information come from?

For reference:

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Old Cloth Hall, Borough and Township of Wigan, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Mary Carr Head Married Female 40 1811 Breaking Land Ireland
Catherine Carr Daughter Unmarried Female 15 1836 Breaking Land Ireland
Peter Carr Son Unmarried Male 13 1838 Breaking Land Ireland
Bridget Carr Daughter Unmarried Female 10 1841 Breaking Land Ireland
Mary Carr Daughter Unmarried Female 6 1845 Breaking Land Ireland
Mary Gibbons Lodger Widow Female 35 1816 Kuitter Ireland

Wouldn't be James would he?...

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=594334.0

(Father james carr b 1809. d 1857 Wigan..)


(if above relates)

Chris :)

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Wigan/Wigan1881.shtml

(Mary Carr W 76 Inmate Dom Servant Ireland)


Edits (presume for that query, below relates)


Deaths Mar 1857 (>99%)
---------------------------------------
Carr James Wigan 8c 21


Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1857

CARR James 47 Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/38/421

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Does indeed look like the same family Chris. Catherine with married name Keely in 1861.

Deaths:
CARR, JAMES 47 Order
GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 21

http://wiganworld.co.uk/communicate/geneinfo.php?opt=gene&gid=1631&gline=1

(CARR, JAMES - c1810./d1857)

(also on above, coming up on google search)


Marriage: 7 Jan 1855 St John RC, Wigan, Lancs.
John Keeley -
Catherine Carr -
Married by: Thomas Seed
Source: Original register at LRO

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Wigan/Wigan/stjohn/marriages_1850-1860.html

Chris :)

Thanks everyone. The marriage and dates of John and Mary Carr came from my friend and I couldn't prove any of this due to being from Ireland.

I have seen most of the information above, but not found he could be named James. The information does seem to fit very well. Thank you so much.

I can go on from there. Grateful. :-) :-) <3

This is the message form the rootschat post that ChrisHo posted:

Looking for any information on the Carr name from Mayo.
All I have is this information so far..
Bridget left a clue in the Wigan 1911 census.
saying that she was born Charlestown Mayo.

and this is probably the census referred to:


Name:Bridget Carr
Age in 1911:70
Estimated birth year:abt 1841
Relation to Head:Wife ****
ender:Female
Birth Place:Charlesh, Mayo, Ireland
Civil Parish:Wigan

they have been married 45 years; 8 children, 4 living.

son, John, 37 b Wigan is living with them.

So, unless Bridget in the 1851 married a Carr, this isn't her.

1871 (Find My Past)
Mary Carr Head - Female 66 1805 - Ireland
Bridget Carr Daughter - Female 32 1839 - Ireland
Mary Carr Granddaughter - Female 12 1859 - Lancashire, England
James Carr Grandson - Male 7 1864 - Lancashire, England
Barrack Yard, Wigan, Lancashire

(no idea of things!, but above looks to be Bridget)


1861 (Find My Past)
Mary Carr Head Widow Female 57 1804 Washerwoman Ireland
Catherine Keeley Daughter Married Female 25 1836 Cotton Drawer Ireland
Peter Carr Son Unmarried Male 23 1838 Cotton Spinner Ireland
Bridget Carr Daughter Unmarried Female 22 1839 Cotton Carder Ireland
Mary Carr Daughter Unmarried Female 18 1843 Cotton Carder Ireland
Mary Carr Granddaughter Unmarried Female 3 1858 - Wigan, Lancashire, England
8, Walmsleys Square, Wigan, Lancashire,


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1858

CARR Mary CARR Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/53/38


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1864

CARR James CARR Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/75/224

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Re Bridget Carr someone has a tree on Genes and has her with a daughter Mary who married Brigdale and Corless

(as below for them)

Chris :)

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1876

CARR Mary BRIGDALE Michael Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROW


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1892

CARR Mary CORLESS James St. Thomas, Wigan Wigan & Leigh C11/5/250

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

1881 Census

Name Mary Brigdale
Age 23
Estimated Birth Year abt 1858
Relationship to Head Lodger (Head)
Gender Female
Where born Wigan, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Pemberton
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 12 Sarginson St
Marital Status Married
Occupation Cotton Spinner
Registration district Wigan
ED, institution, or vessel 7
Piece 3779
Folio 69
Page number 33

Ellen English 60
Patrick Twodig 14
Ellen Twodig 11
Mary Brigdale 23
Matthew Brigdale 3


BRIGDALE, MATTHEW mmn CARR
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 71


Mary then reverts to Carr in the 1891 Census .........

Name Mary Carr
Age 32
Estimated Birth Year abt 1859
Relation Head
Gender Female
Where born Wigan, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Pemberton
Ecclesiastical parish Pemberton St John
Town Newtown
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Wigan
ED, institution, or vessel 6
Piece 3063
Folio 110
Page number 5

Mary Carr 32 Married, Cotton Spinner
Matthew Brigdal 13 b.ca 1878, Pemberton, Lancashire, Pit Door Tenter (??)
James Carr 4 b.ca 1887, Pemberton


NOTE:- Matthew's surname is Brigdale on the image


?????
CARR, JAMES -
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 143

??? another child of Mary's

BRIGDALE, ALICE -
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 136


from lancs opc

Baptism: 6 Jul 1891 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Alice Brigdale - [Child] of Mary Brigdale
Born: 18 Jun
Abode: Newtown
Occupation: Factory Operative
Baptised by: H.W.M. Gunning Curate
Register: Baptisms 1890 - 1892, Page 119, Entry 946
Source: LDS Film 1885688


Mary may have married James Corless bigamously, IF the following is correct!

UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949

Name Michael Brigdale
Campaign or Service Second Afghan War
Service Date 1878-1880
Service Location Afghanistan
Regiment or Unit Name 2nd Battalion East Lancashire Regiment
Regimental Number 1931

???????????

UK, Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner Soldier Service Records, 1760-1920

Name: Michael Brigdale
Age: 21
Birth Date: abt 1856
Birth Place: Ennis Clare
Service Start Year: 1877
Regiment: 60 Rifles
Regimental Number: 1931
Attestation Paper: Yes

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=241991.0

(above has Marriage Cert., no details)

Chris :)


Marriage: 6 Aug 1900 St Mark, Newtown, Pemberton, Lancashire, England
Matthew Brigdale - 23 Collier Bachelor of 15 Hopwood St Newtown
Mary Taylor - 24 Spinner Spinster of 21 Soho Street Newtown
Groom's Father: Michael Brigdale, Soldier
Bride's Father: Henry Taylor, Labourer
Witness: Harry Crook; Sarah Bates
Married by Banns by: James Thompson Curate
Register: Marriages 1892 - 1903, Page 171, Entry 341
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html


13 May 1882 - Hampshire Advertiser - Southampton, Hampshire, England

LOCAL AND DISTRICT NEWS.
A Skirmisher. Michael Brigdale, a private in the 60th Royal Rifles, was charged with having been in a garden in Southgate street with intent to commit a felony last night at nearly 11 o'clock. Police sergeant Feltham found him hid in the bushes in Captain Crawford's garden. His story was that he had broken out of the adjacent barracks and meant no harm. His regimental character was not good, and he escaped with a fine of 5s only.

(probably the below)

(1881 Census
33, Southgate Street, Winchester St Thomas, Winchester, Hampshire,
Alexr Crawford Head Single Male 37 1844 Commander R N Retired Winchester, Hampshire, England)


02 January 1945 - Lancashire Evening Post - Preston, Lancashire,

Death
CORLESS. On the 31st ult., at Sharoe Green Hospital. JAMES, the beloved husband of MARY CORLESS, aged 81 years. "At Rest.” 5. Strand-street West. —lnquiries, J. Kirkham & Sons (Tel. 6471).

Edits (might different James above, looking at below age for Mary)


1939 Register (Find My Past)

5 Strand Street West , Preston C.B., Lancashire
James Corless 21 Aug 1863 Male Head Gardener Married 53 1
Mary Corless 28 Aug 1877 Female Bank Office Cleane Married


(have you had a check in 'Search All Member Trees' ? (top right of page here, under 'Search') Michael Brigdale is there, by author on that roots link, from looks of it, could also be Carrs)

Hi Yes I have looked at other trees regarding Carrs and found the one with Michael Brigdale just before you sent this ! It was helpful but going a little away from my friend's family of Keeley/Keely/Carr.

But I do like the piece you've included Chris about the skirmisher!!

Thank you to everyone for the help.

John Keely or Keeley 1834 - 1908 seems illusive but I think he may have been a soldier or worked away. I have him in 1881 census with 8 children and poss 1851 with mother Amelia.

I thought I'd look for wife Catherine b, 1834 or 1836 in Wigan.

There's also another Catherine Keeley b.1891



Regards Margaret

Just going off for the night but this might be of use to you??

http://www.freewebs.com/msmccarthy/apps/forums/topics/show/368508

Dea x