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Thank you for reply John.

Prickles. :-)

Dear All

Many thanks to you all for your prompt replies to my query and the very useful information you have all sent me. It moves me on a long way in my research of the Rose family. William Rose is my 2nd cousin through my maternal grandma and my nextb step is to trace his children.. I have a lot of information on his antecedents going back to our mutual GG Grandma who was the school teacher in Mawdsley in the 1830's. I believe she was born in Shevington nr Wigan but I no info beyond that

Kind regards

John Simm

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),

Name: Mary Rose
Death Date: 24 Mar 1948
Death Place: Lancashire, England
Probate Date: 19 May 1948
Registry: Liverpool, England

ROSE Mary of The Orchard, Gorse Lane, Mawdesley, near Ormskirk, Lancashire widow died 24 March 1948 Probate Liverpool 19 May to William Rose chartered accountant and Doris Gaskell widow Effects £2801 19s 8d
-------------------------------------

1939 for his Mum:

Rose Household (2 People) The Orchard Gorse Lane , Chorley R.D., Lancashire, England
Mary Rose 17 Nov 1865 Female House Holder (Retired) Widowed
Margaret Codham 23 Aug 1890 Female Domestic Servant Single
---------------------------------------

1939 for his sister (next door to Mum):

Gaskell Household (2 People) Church View,Gorse Lane , Chorley R.D., Lancashire, England
Edward Gaskell 10 Mar 1898 Male Railway Clerk Married
Doris Gaskell 12 Aug 1900 Female Domestic Duties Married
closed record
closed record

As John is a new member of GR and this is his first post - PM sent advising of replies and how to return to his thread.

Gilbert's probate:


Gilbert Thomas Rose

in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Record Image View

Name: Gilbert Thomas Rose
Death Date: 4 May 1929
Death Place: Lancashire, England
Probate Date: 19 Aug 1929
Registry: Liverpool, England

Of The Orchard, Mawdesley. Probate to Mary Rose, widow, Doris Rose, spinster. William Rose, chartered accountant and Henry Bridge, farmer. Effects £11526 5s 5d!!!

Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
Pateson Isobel C Nicholson Chorley 8e 863

Isobel Clarke Rose in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Isobel Clarke Rose
Death Date: 5 Apr 1988
Death Place: Heswall Wirral Mersey
Probate Date: 26 May 1988
Registry: Liverpool

Of Wallrake Cott, Dawston Road, Heswall Wirral Mersey......£94990.

The child born in 1938 has a tree on this site. Send them a message to ask if they are related to William or Gilbert T
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/messages/12449937/discover?rk=551877228

If all else fails, you might have to buy the possible marriage certificate to see if William names his father as Gilbert.

Use the references given above and order from
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ at a cost of £9.25 inc P&P.

As you are newly registered to GR, you may not appreciate that England/Wales birth, marriages and death registration indexes can be found for free on http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
To see the full details you have to order the certificates.

The children's names can be found by selection births, surname Rose, mothers maiden name Pateson and year range 1935 (year of marriage) to 1939 (year the 1939 Register was taken)

You could extend the year range to 1950/55ish to see if there were other births to that marriage. Potential twins born 1946.

Hi John and welcome to GR.


William Rose in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: William Rose
Death Date: 13 Jul 1984
Death Place: Heswall Wirral Merseyside
Probate Date: 10 Sep 1984
Registry: Liverpool

Of Wallrake Cottage, 28 Dawston Road, Heswall Wirral Merseyside.

Effects not exceeding: £4000

Gilbert & Mary's marriage. (1911 census says married 12 years.

Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
Bridge Mary Chorley 8e 987
Rose Gilbert Thomas Chorley 8e 987

This is where the 'chartered accountant' came from:

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations)
Name: Gilbert Thomas Rose
Death Date: 4 May 1929
Death Place: Lancashire, England
Probate Date: 19 Aug 1929
Registry: Liverpool, England
ROSE Gilbert Thomas of The Orchard, Mawdesley, Lancashire died 4 May 1929 Probate Liverpool 19 August to Mary Rose widow, Doris Rose spinster, William Rose chartered accountant and Henry Bridge farmer.

If 1939 register is the correct 'wife' - and we don't know for sure as William isn't in the household - her death from FMP

First name(s) ISOBEL CLARKE
Last name ROSE
Birth day 22
Birth month 7
Birth year 1911
Death quarter 2
Death year 1988
District BIRKENHEAD
Volume 37
Page 829

Death In the same reg district
WILLIAM
Last name ROSE
Gender Male
Birth day 10
Birth month 8
Birth year 1904
Death quarter 3
Death year 1984
District BIRKENHEAD
Register number 784
County Cheshire
Volume 37
Page 651
Register number 488

An August birth could have been registered in the September quarter.
County Cheshire
Volume 37
Page 829

Possibly Isobel, if she was indeed his wife, on 1939 Register

Rose Household (2 People) Lynton Marine Drive , Wirral U.D., Cheshire, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Isabel C Rose 22 Jul 1911 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 143 1
CLOSED RECORD
CLOSED RECORD
Louisa Wells (Cox) 02 Jul 1922 Female Domestic Servant (Cook General) Single 143 4

Note - closed record indicates a person born after 1915 who died after early 1991 for whom no death record has been identified in England or Wales.

As freebmd shows 2 Rose/Pateson births 1935-1939, the closed records are probably her children

My goodness - how on earth did they manage that??

Speculative marriage based on area

WILLIAM
Last name ROSE
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1935
Spouse's last name PATESON
District CHORLEY
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8E
Page 1159

MarriageFinder™ WILLIAM ROSE married ISOBEL C PATESON

1911 census on Ancetry has surname mistranscribed as Toose!

Are you going forward or backwards?

For our benefit

1911 Census - on Findmypast
New Street Mawdesley Ormskirk, Mawdesley, Lancashire, England

Gilbert T Rose Head Married Male Grocer Draper Bakers Provision Dealer 42 1869 Mawdesley Lancashire
Mary Rose Wife Married Female Assisting In The Business 45 1866 Tarleton Lancashire
Doris Rose Daughter - Female - 11 1900 Mawdesley Lancashire
William Rose Son - Male - 6 1905 Mawdesley Lancashire >MARY BRIDGE>> ?, ALICE WELCH
District CHORLEY
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8E
Page 987

William's birth http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At
ROSE William BRIDGE Croston Preston

From freeBMD
Births Sep 1904 (>99%)
Rose William Chorley 8e 491
(Chorley reg covers Croston)

For Ref:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
New Street Mawdesley Ormskirk, Mawdesley, Lancashire, England

Gilbert T Rose Head Married Male Grocer Draper Bakers Provision Dealer 42 1869 Mawdesley Lanc
Mary Rose Wife Married Female Assisting In The Business 45 1866 Tarleton Lancashire
Doris Rose Daughter - Female - 11 1900 Mawdesley Lancashire
William Rose Son - Male - 6 1905 Mawdesley Lancashire
Ellen Caunce Servant Single Female General Servant Domestic 20 1891 Holmeswood Lancashire

Married 12 years- 2 children, still living

I am trying to obtain information on my ancestor William Rose, born in Mawdsley, Lancs in 1905. His father was GilbertThomas Rose and his mother Mary Rose. He is believed to be a chartered accountant and lived in later life in Heswall, Wirral.

Any in formation gratefully received

John Simm