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Please could anyone help me. I would like to know her actual name and when she died and if possible her parents names as well. On her daughters birth certificate she is listed as Minnie Brooker Formally Gardiner however I understand that she probably did not marry Henry or John Brookera seaman who was reportedly French and deceased by his daughter Olive Marion Brooker birth 2 July 1893 in Chiswick. She then went to house-keep for Richard Rodwell who had some children already, and at some stage began to call herself Rodwell and they had 6 children together.
A grand daughter of hers in England says they have not ever found a marriage certificate for either relationship, she however has her name as Marion Gardiney Webb born 7th Ocotber 1868 a t3 Windsor Palace Putney, lived in Tunbridge Wells. I am sure on thebirth and marriage of her daughter's documents I have that it is Gardiner not y and there is no mention of Webb on them so I would like some help if anyone can check this out. Thanks Margaret Hunt New Zealand

to start with, and to help the helpers!

Here is Olive in 1901

1901 Census

Name: Olive Brooker
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Visitor
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Chiswick, London, England
Civil Parish: East Ham
Search Photos: Search for 'East Ham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Little Ilford St Mary the Virgin
Town: East Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: East Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 42

Piece: 1601
Folio: 132
Page Number: 3
Household schedule number: 10

George Rodwell 41 b.ca 1860, St Albans, Hertfordshire, Commercial Traveller
Minnie Rodwell 31 b.ca 1870, Putney, London
Gertrude Rodwell 13
Leonard Rodwell 7
John Leslie Rodwell 3
Nellie Rodwell 1
Olive Brooker 7
Marian Gardiner 46 b.ca 1855, Borough, London, Visitor, Widow

Address:- 6 Laurence Avenue



so ......... is Minnie Rodwell who you think is Marion Gardiner???

Then just who is Marion Gardiner b. ca 1855, London??????????

Is this Minnie who you think is Marion??


1911 Census

Name: George Richard Rodwell
Age in 1911: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: St Albans, Hertfordshire
Civil Parish: East Ham
Search Photos: Search for 'East Ham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 10 Little Ilford Lane, Manor Park E
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Boot Traveller
Registration district: West Ham
Registration District Number: 188
Sub-registration district: North East Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Household schedule number: 258
Piece: 9584

George Richard Rodwell 51
Minnie Rodwell 41 b.ca 1870, Putney, Surrey
Leonard Rodwell 17
John Leslie Rodwell 13
Nellie Rodwell 11
George Rodwell 9
Lewis Charles Rodwell 5

Married 15 years, 6 children born, 1 child died, 5 still living

?????????????????


not many Marions born in Putney


This is one that is puzzling me

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Marion Elliott Webb
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 16 Jan 1870
Mother's name: Marion Webb
Parish or Poor Law Union: Putney St Mary
Borough: Wandsworth
Register Type: Parish Registers

Marion Webb is shown as a Single Woman

For Baptism of Leonard (FMP. Herts. St. Albans. 1896. Father, George Richard &) left blank!.


Births Mar 1894 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Rodwell Leonard St. Alban's 3a 591


Deaths Mar 1973 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
RODWELL LEONARD 17DE1893 BARKING 5A 163

(above shared by another Genes Member. see 'Search All Member Trees' under 'Search', top right of page here)

Chris :)

?

Marriages Sep 1911 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Coates William G Romford 4a 1101
Ladbrook Kathleen M Romford 4a 1101
Motte Kate S A Romford 4a 1101
RODWELL George R Romford 4a 1101


Deaths Mar 1932 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Rodwell George R 49 Romford 4a 678


Deaths Jun 1932 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------
Rodwell George R 73 W. Ham



Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
RODWELL Frederick L Gardiner W. Ham 4a 561

edits

(for benefit of helpers, can you post all details from Certificates, addresses, witnesses etc.)

Thank you all so much, this is very confusing but I might have an idea. Perhaps Marion is Minnie's Mother and Olive was living with her grandmother and they are visiting ,then she became part of the family. If Marion Webb married Mr Gardiner that would get the Gardiner Webb bit fitted in. The ages of 31 and 46 are a bit close but I have been told that some ages are rounded. This is the right family in the census as I have a postcard of Olive's that has Miss O Rodwell 7?2,
Lawrence Ave Manor Park E12.She was known as Rodwell to some of the family. I also have another postcard of a shop called Lucas which she has written on the back that she worked there for 10 years and met John Hunt while working there so that might explain why she is not in the 1910 census if she was working away.
The younger Rodwell children fit with the names I have, Jack, Lou Nell George Fred born 1914 and I was told there were older children who's mother died. So we have Mr Rodwell's name as George Richard Rodwell . Olive's birth and marriage certificates both say her mother was Minnie Brooker Olive's fathers name formally Gardiner. I will be most interested to see if anyone can find any more. Thanks for what you have found so far.
Margaret

The only other clues I have is another Rodwell cousin no longer alive wrote on the back of a photo of a grave, the only Hambley I could find in St Ives Cemetery although plenty of Hambley's in the phone book. It definitely is a west country name. Hope to get back to investigate further .Not much joy in Tunbridge Wells either although local man said Gardiner was a local name.
She sent this to my father in law, Olive's son a few years ago, she must have been over in England visiting as she was living in Canada.
Margaret

Possibly the Marian Gardener visiting in 1901


Name: Marian Gardiner
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Paddington, London, England
Civil Parish: Hammersmith
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Fulham
Sub registration district: St Paul Hammersmith
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 39
Folio: 186
Page Number: 41
Household Members:
Name Age
Kate Woodstock 30
Annie Woodstock 38
Bessie Woodstock 28
Lillie Philip 20
Harriett L Austin 30
Mary A Church 72
Sarah H Browne 45
Marian Gardiner 37 <<<<<<<<<< widow

1891 for George Rodwell

Record Image VIEW
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Name: George R Rodwell
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary J Rodwell
Gender: Male
Where born: St Albans, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Chesham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Bellingdon
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Amersham
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1129
Folio: 89
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
George R Rodwell 33
Mary J Rodwell 35
George Rodwell 8
William Rodwell 6
Gertrude Rodwell 3

edit George Richard juniors birth
Births Dec 1882 (>99%)

Rodwell George Richard Amersham 3a 549

?

Deaths Jun 1896 (>99%)
Rodwell Mary Jane 42 Pancras 1b 38

sept 1868

GARDNER Minnie Elizabeth Croydon 2a 227

http://www.knowhere.co.uk/Manor-Park/Greater-London/London-and-inside-M25/index

(above has Manor Park Message Board (The main message board for Manor Park) if Lucas shop, or name Rodwell rings a bell with anybody!)

Chris :)

Margaret - FYI -1841 was the only census when ages were supposed to be rounded, and then ages 15+ were supposed to be rounded down to a multiple of 5 (but weren't always).

As mgnv says, the 1841 Census was the ONLY census were ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 for all persons over the age of 15.

On all other censuses ages may vary by 1 or 2 years depending on when the census was taken vs the person's birth date .................

If you look at the image of a census, you will see that the actual age of a person is given. Modern-day transcribers had to translate that into an approximate birth year.

Someone who had a birthday on the day after the census would therefore appear to be 1 year out when looking at the birth year on the record.

Thanks for all this information some of which seems to add up like the first wife Mary and her death before Minnie became part of the household. Perhaps she and George Richard Rodwell did get married but not actually till 1911, would make sense of why the family couldn't find it.
Would anyone be able to find her death?
Also in the 1891 census could anyone find Minnie and Marion Gardiner / Webb ages approx 21 and 36 as Mother and daughter, or 1881 ages 11 and 26? If so that would mean I could add her as Minnie/ Marion's mother which would be really great.
Thanks again.
Margaret Hunt

Re the postcard mentioning Lucas

Olive in 1911

Name: Olive Maria Rodwell ( Olive Marion on image)
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Chelsea, Middlesex
Civil Parish: Romford

County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 35 South St, Romford, Essex
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Maid Domestic
Registration district: Romford
Registration District Number: 191
Sub-registration district: Romford
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 85
Piece: 9835
Household Members:
Name Age
Betsy Roger Lucas 68 (Betsy Bayer Lucas?)
Olive Maria Rodwell 17

Betsy Lucas was a "China and Piano dealer"

Name: Mrs Betsy Lucas
Gender: Female
Street address: 5c glass dealer High street
Occupation: Pianoforte Tuner & China
Publication Title: 1878 Post Office Directory
County: Essex
Country: England
Publication Year: 1878

Just because it's quite interesting

Name: Betsy Bezer Lucas
Probate Date: 17 Sep 1929
Registry: London, England
Death Date: 6 Apr 1929
Death Place: Essex, England

She left over £10,000 probate to William Blake Lucas glass dealer.

Yes Rambling Rose this is so right, the postcard says from B Lucas and it shows China and says piano fortes tuned. I can't add a photo of it here but Mrs Lucas is in the picture.
Margaret

Margaret you mentioned earlier the photo of a grave with 'Hambley' written on the back? It may be irrelevant but there are quite a lot with the Hambley surname on freebmd in the Wandsworth area, which would cover Putney where Minnie Rodwell was born?