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I am trying to trace the parents of my illigitimate great grandfather Joseph Lawrence. 1871 census shows him living at Moseley Hall, Bushbury, Staffordshire.aged 1 as a visitor in the Brotherton household, and again in 1881 aged 11 as a nurse child. His place of birth was entered as Manchester. He Married Emily Perks in 1891 in Wolverhampton. I am informed that he was farthered in the Vernon Household at Hilton park Hall, Shareshill, Staffordshire, His mother being a servant/maid. There must be some truth in this as the vernon family also owned the moseley estate and were said to have provided for josephs upkeep and education. Joseph later became sexton of St Marys church Bushbury, and continued living in the area until his death in 1930. I would be very greatfull for any assistance in confirming his parents and also finding out how he got the name of Lawrence.
Regards
Larry.

Researching:
Bown, Lawrence, Perks, Dawes, Bliss, Dascombe, Sawbridge,

Unless you can find his birth cert or a baptism it's unlikely you can find who his mum was

You could try for a female Lawrence in the 1871 census living in the Vernon household

The Vernon household in 1911

Scotland Census Transcription
Hilton Park Wolverhampton, Hilton Shareshill, Staffordshire, England

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Print transcription View image Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Augustus Severn Vernon Head Married Male Lourds Of Proprietor Private Means 74 1837 Somerset Clifton Transcription
Selina Anne Vernon Wife Married Female - 69 1842 Staffordshire Bilbrook Transcription
Frances Edward Servant Single Female Housekeeper 57 1854 Middlesex St James Transcription
Edith Summer Kirkham Servant Single Female Cook 33 1878 Devonshire Plymouth Transcription
Alice Williams Servant Single Female Housemaid 31 1880 Herefordshire Peterchurch Transcription
Mary Ellen Rochell Servant Single Female Housemaid 22 1889 Staffordshire Chasetown Transcription
Alice May Everett Servant Single Female Housemaid 11 1900 Cambridgeshire Gt Cheshall Transcription
Alice Maud Talton Servant Single Female Kitchenmaid 19 1892 Staffordshire Kate Hill Transcription
Miriam Anslow Servant Single Female Scullery Maid 21 1890 Staffordshire Shareshill Transcription
Fred Anslow Servant Single Male Footman 24 1887 Staffordshire Shareshill Transcription
Ernest George Bray Servant Single Male Asher

No Lawrence with the family in 1881

Scotland Census Transcription
Deansfield, Brewood, Cannock, Staffordshire, England

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Print transcription View image Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Agustus L Vernon Head Married Male 44 1837 Esq J P Ol Clifton, England Transcription
Selina A Vernon Wife Married Female 39 1842 - Tettenhall, Staffordshire, England Transcription
Selina Mary Vernon Daughter Single Female 10 1871 - Brewood, Staffordshire, England Transcription
Walter B Wm Vernon Son Single Male 9 1872 - Brewood, Staffordshire, England Transcription
Martha Poole Servant Single Female 44 1837 Housekeeper (Domestic) Shropshire, England Transcription
Frances Edmead Servant Single Female 27 1854 Ladies Maid (Domestic) City of London, Middlesex, England Transcription
Martha Jones Servant Single Female 19 1862 Sewing Maid (Domestic) Ratlinghope, Staffordshire, England Transcription
Eleanor Ann Riley Servant Single Female 19 1862 Housemaid (Domestic) Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England Transcription
Margaret Young Servant Single Female 16 1865 Scullery Maid (Domestic) Lichfield, Hampshire, England Transcription
John Bickley Servant Single Male 21 1860 Groom (Dometsic) Tipton, Staffordshire, England Transcription

No Lawrence with the family in 1871 either

Thanks, I have just been searching the Bushbury parish records and have found a Joseph baptised on 7th Aug 1870, his mother was Harriet Lawrence (unmarried).
If this is him why did the 1871 census state he was born in Manchester ?
and who was the father ?

It might not be unusual to see the mother marrying soon after?

just a possible?


Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%)
Cotterill William Wolverhampton 6b 761
Lawrence Harriet Wolverhampton 6b 761 <<<
Thompson Thomas Wolverhampton 6b 761
Yardley Emma Wolverhampton 6b 761

1861 census shows Harriet Lawrence 16 a servant working in Wednesfield, not far from Bushbury. She was born Kemberton, Shropshire.
just out of interest Salina Vernon was the daughter of Lord Gifford of Chillington Hall, Brewood.

This is the 1861.Note other name re marriage poted br RR


Mary Seymore 59
James Thompson 28
>>>Thomas Thompson 26
Richard Lord 5
>>> Harriet Larance 26
Even Lord 24

Andy

Yes Andy the 1871 census shows her as the niece of Mary (the mother of Thomas) and from Madeley, Shrops, I have also found a death of a Harriet Lawrence in Madeley in1874 aged 28. In fact I now have found 3 birth records of a Harriet Lawrence all born within 3yrs of each other and all from shropshire. Which one if any is my gt gt gran and who's the daddy?
I think I need a coffee.

1911 if this is him he says he was born
Joseph Lawrence Head Married Male Groom Grdener 41 1870 Staffs Bushbury

Bushbury is part of Walsall registration district

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1870 (>99%)
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Lawrence Joseph Walsall 6b 642

Andy

According to Genuki, Bushbury was part of Penkridge Registration District, although the above birth in Walsall looks to be right.

Kath x

There is this Baptism?

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Lawrence
Baptism year 1870
Baptism date 07 Aug 1870
Baptism place Bushbury, St Mary
Denomination Anglican
Mother's first name(s) Harriet (single woman)
Abode Wolverhampton
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D3362/1/4
Page 53
Register type Baptism
Record set Staffordshire baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

1871 Marriage as above

First name(s) Harriet
Last name Lawrence
Name note -
Age 26
Marriage year 1871
Marriage date 15 May 1871
Marriage place Wolverhampton
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Father's last name Lawrence
Spouse's first name(s) Thomas
Spouse's last name Thompson
Spouse's father's first name(s) Richard
Spouse's father's last name Thompson
Residence Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
County Staffordshire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

Name Joseph Lawrence
Event Type Census
Event Date 31 Mar 1901
Event Place Bushbury, Staffordshire, England
County Staffordshire
Civil Parish Bushbury
Ecclesiastical Parish Bushbury St Mary With Essington
Sub-District Brewood
Registration District Cannock
Gender Male
Age 31
Occupation GENERAL LABOURER (BOILER SHOP)
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1870
Birthplace Bushbury, Staffordshire
Schedule Type 171
Page Number 25
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

Joseph Lawrence Head M 31 Bushbury, Staffordshire
Emily Lawrence Wife F 29 Willenhall, Staffordshire
George E Lawrence Son M 6 Bushbury, Staffordshire
Edith E Lawrence Daughter F 4 Bushbury, Staffordshire

Bushbury in old photographs

p76: Revd Percy Ilott at Bushbury Vicarage; Lawrence family inc Joseph Lawrence at Glebe Cottage 1906

http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/GB149_LS_L9_26/

(might be him above?)

Chris :)

Thanks to all for the above info, yes Chris it is my gt grandfather in the photo I have a copy. My brick wall is still confirming if Harriet is his mother and if so which Harriet? also who was his father. The Joseph born in walsall is not my Joseph, I have been down that route before. My grandfather George E Lawrence (Joseph's son) was in the cavalry in ww1 and I am told that his two horses (one was killed) were paid for by the vernon family. I have been working on this part of my family for about 5yrs now and must admit to resigning myself to the fact that he took these secrets to the grave with him, as I have to my knowlage,no other living relatives who can help.
Once again Thank you for all your help, any more ideas or suggestions would be very welcome.
Larry

Re POB Manchester? Could it be that his Mother was sent away to have the child and that is where he was born and what was put on census returns by the Brothertons? Later on when answering for himself, maybe he believed he was locally born.

The birth may never have been registered - no penalties for not doing so then and no risk of a Father's name being recorded??