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I wondered if that was the one. Still not found any links to Alice though. Tried seeing if I could find her as one of Emma's nieces but not found

I have their marriage thanks Ann - they married 1866, she married as Emily Whitehurst.

I suppose the only way to find Alice's maiden name is to get a birth cert for Ethel (Sanders) born 18th May 1899 - father Benjamin described as a boatman on christening record

did you ever find a marriage record for Henry & Emma

Thanks for your efforts ArgyllGran - at least it kept you out of mischief!
I suspect you are right and the Bainbridges aren't related at all. They are a bit of a mystery tho, glad they aren't my relatives!
Thanks again everyone for all your help.
Jan x

Good point, Ann.

This is probably the one in the asylum in 1901, and the 1904 death is probably her as well:

M A S
in the 1901 England Census
Name: M A S
Age: 83
Estimated birth year: abt 1818
Relation to Head: Patient
Gender: Female
Birth Place: N
Civil Parish: Kings Norton
Ecclesiastical parish: The Lickey Holy Trinity
Town: Rubery
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Kings Norton
ED, institution, or vessel: Rubery Hill
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2807
Folio: 178
Page Number: 32
Household schedule number: 1


So Alice Saunders, or whatever her name is, is still missing in 1911, along with Jonathan and Charles - and maybe Ethel too.

I don't see any emigration record for them.

If the above Maria Alice was the same one as in the 1901 census she would have been in two entries as the census was taken on 31st March which is 3 weeks after Maria Alice was admitted to the institution (not unknown I know)

Ancestry suggests this is Benjamin's marriage - and certainly son Charles is born in Birmingham.

Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%)
BAINBRIDGE Maria Alice Birmingham 6d 299
Sanders Benjamin Birmingham 6d 299

If that's correct, Maria Alice died before 1911:

Maria Alice Sanders
in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Maria Alice Sanders
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Registration Year: 1904
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 31
Registration district: King's Norton
Inferred County: Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 193


Her birth fits the Alice Saunders in 1901:

Births Mar 1871 (>99%)
BAINBRIDGE Maria Alice King's N. 6c 508

Perhaps this is her??

Maria A Sanders
in the UK, Lunacy Patients Admission Registers, 1846-1912
Name: Maria A Sanders
Gender: Female
Admission Date: 5 Mar 1901
Institution: Rubery
Intitution Place: Worcestershire, England
Death Date: 3 Jul 1904
Death Place: Worcestershire, England


So maybe the enumerator was wrong in saying Alice in 1901 was a Hillier daughter? It does seem like a big mistake, though.

Well Jan, that certainly is a challenge re Alice.

You said, "Perhaps you can sort out Alice from 1901 (good luck with that one!!). I can't link her to Henry or Emma anywhere else."

Neither can I.

Can't see a marriage of a Benjamin Saunders (or alternative spelling) to any Hillier anywhere.

Can't see any of the Saunders family in 1911 - though possibly daughter Ethel died:

Births Dec 1901 (>99%)
Saunders Ethel Maud W. Bromwich 6b 858

Deaths Sep 1906 (>99%)
Saunders Ethel Maud 4 King's N 6c 249

The Charles Henry Saunders suggested by Ancestry for 1911 and later is not the son Charles.

Wiltshire Birth indexes for the years: 1844

HILLIER Henry Calne History Centre (Mother Maiden Name) FREETH CA/4/472

http://www.wiltshirebmd.org.uk/index.php


Births Dec 1844 (>99%)
--------------------------------------
Hillier Henry Calne 8 276

(is that Henry above?)


England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Harriett
Last name Frieth
Marriage year 1830
Marriage date 1830
Marriage place Hillmarton
Spouse's first name(s) Jesse
Spouse's last name Hillier
Residence Hillmarton, Wiltshire, England
County Wiltshire


1841, 1851 (at below)
Goatacre Hamlet, Hillmarton, Calne, Wiltshire

Chris :)

(from google, below)

(Goatacre is a village in the southwestern English county of Wiltshire situated 4 miles north of Calne and 1 mile south of Lyneham)

Yes, hazy could cover it - if your 1919 death aged 72 is right for Emma, then she seems to have lost a few years if already 78 in 1911!!

Thanks greyghost, that looks promising. I think they were a bit hazy on details, and not literate at all - I noticed Henry was not able to sign his name 1911.
Mystery solved, bit too easy for you lot wasn't it.
I must set a greater challenge.
Perhaps you can sort out Alice from 1901 (good luck with that one!!). I can't link her to Henry or Emma anywhere else.
There you are, serves you all right.
Jan x

Could Henry be a bit older than the census' shows

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) HENRY
Last name HILLIER
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1837
Age 74
Death quarter 4
Death year 1911
District KINGS NORTON
County Worcestershire
Volume 6C
Page 493

Thanks a million everyone - I was looking mainly for Henry, using his unusual birthplace of Wiltshire - it's def. them, same address.
Not sure how this eluded me, but there you go.
Thanks very much.
Jan x

Living in same Street in 1911?

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
91 Cranford Street Smethwick, Smethwick, Worcestershire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Henry Hillier Head Married Male Labourer At Gas Works 71 1840 West Bromwich
Emma Hillier Wife - Female - 78 1833 West Bromwich

MArried 45 years - 20 repeat 20 children born alive, 6 still living 14 have died !!!

Don't know about this one?

Emma Hillier

in the 1911 England Census
Record Image View

View Map

Name: Emma Hillier
Age in 1911: 69
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Send, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Ockham
Search Photos: Search for 'Ockham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: Southend Cottage, Ockham Ripley, Woking
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 49
Estimated Marriage Year: 1862
Registration district: Guildford
Registration District Number: 33
Sub-registration district: Ripley
ED, institution, or vessel: 5-6
Household schedule number: 80 A
Piece: 3057
Household Members:
Name Age
Henery Hillier 76
Emma Hillier 69

FMP version of the 1901 gives Emma'a age as 65, which is what the original seems to say.

What age are you basing the death for Emma that you may have found?

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
89, Cranford Street, Smethwick, Smethwick (Staffordshire), Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Hillier Head Married Male 57 1844 Carter Goatacre, Wiltshire, England
Emma Hillier Wife Married Female 65 1836 Monthly Nurse West Bromwich, Staffordshire,
Sarah Hillier Daughter Single Female 20 1881 - Smethwick, Staffordshire, England
Clara Hillier Daughter Single Female 18 1883 Iron Screw Turner Smethwick, Staffordshire,
Benjamin Saunders Son-In-Law Married Male 31 1870 General Laborer West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England
Alice Saunders Daughter Married Female 30 1871 - Smethwick, Staffordshire, England
Charles Saunders Grand Son - Male 8 1893 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Ethel Saunders Grand Daughter - Female 1 1900 - Smethwick, Staffordshire, England

Possible



1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census



Household Information

Address 91 Cranford Street Smethwick
Parish Smethwick
County Worcestershire
Country England
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 46
Registration District Kings Norton
Registration District Number 383
SubDistrict Number 4
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1911 Census for England & Wales
Collections from Great Britain

Person 1

First Name Emma
Last Name Hillier
Birth Year 1833
Age 78
Where Born West Bromwich
Relationship To Head of Household Wife
Gender Female
Condition
Year Of Marriage
Years Of Marriage
Occupation
Military Info
Census Reference RG14PN17988 RG78PN1094 RD383 SD4 ED46 SN340
Archive Reference RG14
Folio
Page
Piece Number 17988

Person 2

First Name Henry
Last Name Hillier
Birth Year 1840
Age 71
Where Born West Bromwich
Relationship To Head of Household Head
Gender Male
Condition Married
Year Of Marriage 1866
Years Of Marriage 45
Occupation Labourer At Gas Works
Military Info
Census Reference RG14PN17988 RG78PN1094 RD383 SD4 ED46 SN340
Archive Reference RG14
Folio
Page
Piece Number 17988

Hillier usually, but very prone to variation as you can imagine - Hillyer, Hilyer etc etc!
I have assumed the death is likely to be one of the variants (perhaps!).
Jan

Is it Hiller or Hillier?

Please could someone see if they can find this couple in 1911? I have looked for deaths for both, and have found a possible for Emma, but nothing for Henry.
Many thanks.
Jan

KIngs Norton is correct reg. dist for Smethwick.

Deaths Dec 1919 (>99%)
HILLER Emma 72 Kings N. 6d 84


1901

Name: Emma Hillier

Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Spouse: Henry Hillier
Birth Place: West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Smethwick

Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: Smethwick
County/Island: Staffordshire

Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Harborne

Henry Hillier 57 b. Goatacre, Wiltshire, England]
Emma Hillier 55
Sarah Hillier 20
Clara Hillier 18

(Below are married daughter & family)
Benjamin Saunders 31
Alice Saunders 30
Charles Saunders 8
Ethel Saunders 1