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I have a problem! William Thomas cattell 1860-1928 m 1883 marion m b weaver 1870-1940 , they had 5 children, marion was admitted to Staffordshire mental hospital in 1900 she died there in 1940.
On the 1911 census William Thomas is m to a alice mary ? & has been for 11 years can find no trace of this, one daughter Muriel b 1901 ?.
In William Thomas will of 1928 it names his widow as alice mary lewis & a son Harold,were William Thomas & alice never married ?

As William was already married......I very much doubt he married Alice Mary Lewis.

If he had married her.........I think his widow would have been named Alice Mary Cattell in his will.

No marriage showing on FreeBMD.

He states married 11 years on the 1911 census.......but he is not with Alice Mary in 1901.

marion m could not have married in 1883 if she was born in 1870 cant find a marraige to alice mary

sorry marion was b in 1860/61

Marion was born in 1861.......

Marian Matilda Beatrice Weaver in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Marian Matilda Beatrice Weaver
Registration Year: 1861
Registration Quarter:
Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Knighton
Inferred County: Radnorshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 177


Deaths Dec 1940 (>99%)
Cattell Marion M B 78 Stafford 6b 25

Probate for Marion


Name:Marion Matilda Beatrice Cattell
Probate Date:6 Feb 1941
Registry:Birmingham, England
Death Date:14 Nov 1940
Death Place:Staffordshire, England

Described as widow
Probate to Mabel Marion Heath. (Daughter born 1885)

So looks like she was never divorced, so William couldn't marry Alice

Andy

Effects on the above will is......£139..18s..8d


Births Dec 1885 (>99%)
CATTELL Mabel Marian Wolverhampton 6b 517


Marriages Sep 1912 (>99%)
CATTELL Mabel M Heath Wolverhampton 6b 1210
Heath William F Cattell Wolverhampton 6b 1210


Mabel Marion Heath in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Mabel Marion Heath
Birth Date: 1885
Date of Registration: Jun 1976
Age at Death: 91
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 32
Page: 1325

Just for the record, here is Marion in 1911


Name:M B Cattell
Age in 1911 49
Estimated birth year:abt 1862
Relation to Head:Patient
Gender:Female
Birth Place:Knighton, Radnorshire
Civil Parish:Stafford
Search Photos:
Search for 'Stafford' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island:Staffordshire
Country:England
Street address:Stafford County Lunatic Asylum, Stafford
Marital Status:Married
Occupation:Housewife
Registration district:Stafford
Registration District Number:357
Sub-registration district:Stafford
ED, institution, or vessel:31-33
Piece:16364


Andy

Is this the family in 1891?

Mabel Marion Cattelo

in the 1891 England Census
Record Image View

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Name: Mabel Marion Cattelo
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William Thos Cattelo
Mother's name: Marion M B Cattelo
Gender: Female
Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Wolverhampton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub registration district: Wolverhampton Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2230
Folio: 8
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
William Thos Cattelo 30
Marion M B Cattelo 29
Mabel Marion Cattelo 5
Percival Wilfred Cattelo 3
Voilet Cattelo 1
Alice Stone 16

Mabel and Violet with their grandfather in 1901:

Mabel M Cattell

in the 1901 England Census
Record Image View

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Name: Mabel M Cattell
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Wolverhampton
Search Photos: Search for 'Wolverhampton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2676
Folio: 71
Page Number: 8
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Weaver 68
Mabel M Cattell 16
Violett Cattell 11

The boys with their father in 1901:

Percival W Cattell

in the 1901 England Census
Record Image View

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Name: Percival W Cattell
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: William T Cattell
Birth Place: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Heath
Search Photos: Search for 'Heath' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Heath Holy Trinity
Town: Heath
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Sub-registration district: Willenhall
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2688
Folio: 136
Page Number: 18
Household schedule number: 104
Household Members:
Name Age
William T Cattell 40
Percival W Cattell 13
Harold W Cattell 8
Horace E Cattell 7
Annie Hill 20

On the 1911 census, it states that Alice Mary has one daughter born and living.

That child is transcribed as Muriel Retina (Pretoria on the image) Mary Cattell born 1901 Birmingham, Warwickshire.

Muriel Retina Mary Cattell in the 1911 England Census
Name: Muriel Retina Mary Cattell
Age in 1911: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1901
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire
Civil Parish: Lower Mitton
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street address: Swan Hotel, 56 High Street, Stourport, Worcestershire
Occupation: school
Registration district: Kidderminster
Sub-registration district: Lower Mitton

Household Members:

William Thomas Cattell 50 (Hotel Proprietor also Traveller for Brewery Wine? Spirit Malts?)
Alice Mary Cattell 41...Shepherds Bush, London
Muriel Retina Mary Cattell 10 <<<<<
Harold Meores Cattell 18 (Harold Weaver Cattell on the image) Apprentice to Retail Chemist.
Horace Edgar Cattell 17

Alice Edith Cattell 32 >>>Annie Edith Morris? on the image...Barmaid Servant

Servants....Servants a bit of a mess when you check out the image!
Annie Morris 23
Albert Stower 35
Joseph Taylor 19
Annie Miller Abel 32
Annie Chrip 18
Mary Louise Lloyd 24


She is actually.....

Births Sep 1900 (>99%)
LEWIS Muriel Pretoria M King's N. 6c 443

I don't seem to be able to find Muriel with or without mother Alice Mary Lewis on the 1901 census.


Are you still with us Ian?

Name:William Thomas Cattell of the Swan Hotel, Stourport

Probate Date:28 Jan 1929

Registry:London, England

Death Date:1 Dec 1928

Death Place:Worcestershire, England

Probate to Alice Mary Lewis (widow) & Harold Weaver Cattell (chemist) £14275

Muriel Pistina Mary Cattell
England and Wales Census, 1911
Name Muriel Pistina Mary Cattell
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Worcestershire
Parish Lower Mitton
Sub-District Lower Mitton
Registration District Kidderminster
Gender Female
Age 10
Birthplace Birmingham Warwicke, Warwickshire
Record Type Household

thanks, so she was living with William Thomas cattell, while his wife was in mental hospital

Yes Ian.

I just wish I could find Muriel in 1901.

:-|

I can't find Muriel or her mom on the 1901 census either. I guess the next move would be to buy her birth certificate


Here's what looks likely to be her marriage


Marriages Sep 1924

Cattell Muriel P M Webb Christchurch 2b 1655
Webb Victor P Cattell Christchurch 2b 1655

----------------------------------------------------


Name:Mrs M P M Webb Honey brook Hall, Kidderminster

Gender:Female

Age:33

Birth Date:abt 1901

Departure Date:15 Sep 1934

Port of Departure:London, England

Destination Port:Toulon, France

Ship Name:Orford

Shipping line:Orient Line

Official Number:146026

---------------------------------------------

Name:Mrs M P M Webb

Gender:Female

Age:45

Birth Date:abt 1901

Departure Date:14 Dec 1946

Port of Departure:London, England

Destination Port:Fremantle, Australia

Ship Name:Orontes

Shipping line:Orient Line

Official Number:146027


Also with her: V P Webb & A S, VBB, D A B Webb

------------------------------------------------



Name:Mrs Pryce M P M Webb

Gender:Female

Age:28

Birth Date:abt 1901

Departure Date:2 Mar 1929

Port of Departure:London, England

Destination Port:Fremantle, Australia

Ship Name:Orama

Shipping line:Orient Line

Also: Mrs A M Cattell age 54

Official Number:146024

------------------------------------------------------------------------


Name:Muriel Pretoria Mary & Victor Pryce Webb (there are other ER's)

Gender:Female

Electoral Year:1949

Subdistrict:Forrest

State:Western Australia

District:Forrest

Alice did eventually marry


Marriages Sep 1930

Cattell Alice M Chumbley Cheltenham 6a 1186
Chumbley Hezekiah Cattell Cheltenham 6a 1186



Name:Alice Mary Chumbley (wife of Hezekiah)

Probate Date:25 Apr 1939

Registry:Norwich

Death Date:24 Jan 1900

Probate to: Muriel Pretoria Webb (wife of Victor Pryce Webb) & Thomas Percy Wiltshire (solicitor) £1374 4s 1d

To confirm the correct death details for Alice Mary:

Deaths Mar 1939
CHUMBLEY Alice M 71 Great Yarmouth 4b 12