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MC

thank you for the offer

I've been through the MGC records online for the period that grandfather was with them.

a. One of the companies noted in his records doesn't exist according to the MGC site

b. They have a blank in their records for the exact same time period!

I did post about it over on the Military thread earlier this year, and no-one could find any record online for the missing period, and could only suggest possible links. I haven't checked all of those, but the ones I have looked at don't help.

The problem appears to be that MGC records were destroyed (or lost or hidden) when they were disbanded soon after WW1 ended, and no-one seems to know why

This is from the MGC site.......

www.machine-gun-corps-database.co.uk

"The Machine Gun Corps is probably one of the most difficult Great War units to research.

It was one of the few “war raised” units, having no existence prior to the conflict, and suffering the ignominy of being disbanded entirely in the years immediately following.

Researchers find it hard to understand why such a vast organisation (well over 100,000 serving soldiers, plus officers, at it’s highest strength) should have left behind so few tangible records.

It has been suggested that the army “establishment” wanted to quickly forget that the Corps ever existed - it had, after all, taken away from the long established infantry regiments some of the very best and cleverest officers whose skill at arms, in mathematics, trigonometry and calculus would become such an asset in the operation of the Vickers machine guns.

It starved the line regiments of recruits, taking the fittest and the best to try and satisfy the demand for more, and yet more, intelligent young men to man the guns.

It succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of its conception, becoming in two short years a model of ruthless efficiency and operational supremacy.

Little wonder that its demise was looked upon with satisfaction in some quarters. Conveniently, perhaps, all of its operational records, its establishments and regimental orders were totally destroyed in a mysterious fire which took place at the last Headquarters of the Corps, at Shorncliffe, near Folkestone in 1920. Not a single sheet of paper survived and even the partly written history of the Corps was lost. No attempt has been made to put right this omission until recent years.

This disaster, together with the loss of so many personal enlistment files in September 1940, during the blitz on London, has made the job of researching MGC soldiers an enigma for the average genealogist. Official figures suggest that about 35% of original files still exist, but “in depth” research into those held by the National Archives (and available on-line via Ancestry) reveal that, in respect of the MGC, only about 20% can be found. Of these, a significant number are duplicated, leaving a net percentage nearer to 15%. The chances of finding a specific file is in the order of one in six.

The concept of the MGC Research Database was to bring together in one place, in one format, as many facts, however minute, in respect of any soldier who once wore the badge of the crossed-Vickers guns. In doing so, and by using a professional computer archiving system, a totally unique reference tool has slowly been built. Data from this archive can be merged and manipulated in a way which can provide answers to questions that no other storage medium can attempt."

Sylvia, I posted this link earlier

http://goo.gl/tsSXS9

If you look on there you can see samples of actual pension cards, no places of injury.

A better way to find out where your grandfather may have been could perhaps be the battalion diaries - I may be able to help with that.

don't they say where the injury occurred??

:-(

call me ever hopeful!


Last night, I found the WW1 war service record on ancestry for my great uncle ............. they lived next door to us when I was a child, and all I can remember is that I was always being "shushed" because the noise would disturb "Uncle Walter" who had been injured in the war.

Yep ............

He was discharged as unfit for service due to ................

bunion
rheumatism

He'd also spent time in hospitals in Boulogne and in the UK for Myalgia, Dysentry and Trench Foot

He did get a pension for 1 year

Sylvia, to be honest the pension cards don't go into that level of detail re: the locations of soldiers whilst serving. They record details of any injuries or disabilities and family members and of course pensions due.

Thank you, MC

I may give it a try for my grandfather ............ if they have anything, it may add inforation for the missing few months between him being assigned to the MGC in England, and embarking on a ship in Bombay to go to Basra in what is now iraq.



and well done on getting OH's grandfather added to the CWGC.

Sylvia, the pension cards are for British personnel irrespective of where they served. This is from their site:

"Background to the archive

During the Great War, dependents of each serving British soldier, sailor, airman and nurse who was killed were entitled to a pension, as were those service personnel who were wounded or otherwise incapacitated due to the conflict. There is a card for each. These cards are categorised as follows:

Other Ranks Died (this contains nearly one million individual records)

Widows and Dependents of Other Ranks Died (in excess of one million records)

Other Ranks Survived: Requested/Rejected/Receiving Pension (over 2.5 million records)

Officers survived and Officers' Widows (approximately 150,000 records)

Merchant Naval Cards (about 5,000 records)"

The WFA may seem a misnomer but it existed primarily as a charity dedicated to aspects of WW1 in relation to the "Western Front".

However, when it "rescued" the pension cards from the MoD then those cards cover personnel who served in various theatres of war - scrolling down the link below shows an example of a card for a man serving in Salonika.

http://goo.gl/tsSXS9

Apologies to Pam for commandeering her thread but hopefully the information may be useful to others.

I would like to add that in the past few weeks, thanks to information from the WFA, husband's grandfather has just now been commemorated on CWGC - they had previously said there was insufficient information to prove that his death was attributable to the war. The pension card clearly showed the cause of death and stated "due to active service". Job done!

MC ................

I've just looked at the site.

I'm a bit confused ............... do they have records from all parts of the world??

"Western Front" to me means just the European countries, yet I know my grandfather was in India and "Mesopotamia" (which is mainly present-day Iraq)

I couldn't tell whether they also covered those other areas

many thanks for the detailed information Kind regards Pam

Just to say that the pension records on Ancestry are far from comprehensive, they are only a percentage where they were part of service records.

My husband's grandfather's "pension records" weren't on Ancestry, however we obtained his pension cards from the Western Front Association, who hold over 6 million WW1 pension cards.

http://westernfrontassociation.com/

The pension cards detail any injuries that would have entitled the soldier to a pension.

The WFA charge £25 for a look up (£15 is refundable if no record found) and the process can take a few months. It's worth it.

I have been lucky enough to find the Service records for both my maternal grandfather and a paternal uncle.

Both records included details of injuries or sickness and time spent in hospital, or injuries being the reason for demobilising.

Interesting, the injuries detailed for my uncle do not include the injury that his children have mentioned to me!!

At least 2 of them have asked at different times "Do you remember the scar Dad (ie my uncle) had on his face and under his chin? He was shot, and the bullet passed right through his cheek and out under his chin. He was very lucky to survive."

There is not one mention of such an injury on his Record, but mentions of bullet wounds to an arm, and of gassing.

My grandfather's record details hospital stays in Basra, for influenza


In other words, details of injuries seem to be usually found in Service Records, in my experience. If you have been lucky enough to get the records, and there are no injuries mentioned, then I think it would be fair to say that there were none.

In addition, an injured serviceman was eligible for a pension after the war, although all details are not on there. Pension records are on ancestry and do seem to be more or less complete, as are the medal cards. If you have not found a Pension Record, then he probably did not get a pension.

Thanks Kath will check it out

This comes up as a transcription on Findmypast:-

First name(s) W B
Last name Dunn
Service number 11102
Rank Pte.
Unit or regiment 18Bn. E Co. Plat. 19
Country England
Record set Manchester Regiment city battalions 1914-1916
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory First World War
Collections from Great Britain

However if you click on the image it is actually a photograph of the company - although it doesn't give names so it would depend on whether you could work out which one is your man. It's a very good and clear photo though.

Kath. x

Don't think he re enlisted have found electoral registers for few years after he married, His wife died in 1922 after giving birth to twins who were adopted by Grandparents.

Although he was an Insurance Clerk when he married in 1918, might he have re-enlisted after WW1? If so, the relevant documents might still be with the MOD.

The only other record on Ancestry is

Name: W B Dunn
Military Year: 1914-1915
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: 1914-15 Star
Regiment or Corps: Royal Defence Corps
Regimental Number: 81019
Previous Units: 18th Manchesters. 11102 Pte.

Date of Disembarkation 9/11/15.
....
For years we’d believed a relative's ‘bad back’ was due to WW1 service. Yes, he was granted a short term pension & a SWB, but that was for Malaria, not an injury. Sometimes descendents jump to the wrong conclusions.

In your case, if injuries have been mentioned on other military records you’ve found, the full service records have not survived.

From other info received that he served in Royal Defence C. later sometimes indicates injuries also other family related info. thanks to everyone helping. kind regards Pam

British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
Name: William B Dunn
Regiment or Corps: Manchester Regiment, Royal Defence Corps
Regimental Number: 18/11102, 81019

British, Victory and 15-Star but no mention of a Silver War Badge. That was issued if a serviceman was hospitalised/Convalesced or demobbed due to injuries.

What makes you think he was injured?

.....................

Nothing else is coming up.

The death cert sometimes gives details of injuries if they contributed to the cause of death.

Andy

Just posting what comes up in Military Records from Ancestry. Details of injuries may be listed on Pension or Service records if they can be found. Over 70% of Service Records were destroyed during WW2 bombing.

UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920
Name: William Batchin Dunn
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Royal Defence Corps
Regimental Number: 81019
Previous Units: 18th Manc R Pte 18/11102

Image says Theatre of War 8/11/15 - 18/2/16
.............

I am looking for any record of injuries for William Batchen Dunn born 1890.serving in 18th Battalion Manchester Regiment. His service number was 11102 E Company, and he later served in Royal Defence Corp service number 81019. I believe he was injured in France and on his marriage certificate dated 30th March 1918 his occupation is Private in Home Service Employment Company as an Insurance Clerk I have found some info on Forces War Record but nothing about his injuries. He died in 1975 in Lancaster Thank you Pam