Find Ancestors

Ok so if these were his parents then he needs to get their birth certs to go back a bit further

Adopted at birth

Your friends mother was Winsome so surely he should know if she had siblings. When you see him please ask him if he knows the names of any aunties or uncles that would be siblings of his mother. If he does and he know their approximate dates of birth then we may be able to confirm any of the info found.

Thanks a bunch for your help. I have read everything above and will now pass it all on to my friend.
I have already told him that he must get his parents birth certificates before we can get any further information for him.
Thanks again.
R

Would be helpful if we knew any of the names of Winsome's siblings so we could confirm.

Catherine makes a decent case - here's their likely offspring from the GRO index

Births Dec 1911 (>99%)
Kitchener Doris S Goodwin Guisbro 9d 917

Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Kitchener Gerald E Goodwin Guisbro 9d 933

Births Dec 1915 (>99%)
Kitchener George L Goodwin Guisbro 9d 778

Births Jun 1917 (>99%)
Kitchener Percy Goodwin Guisbro 9d 705

Query
Births Mar 1930 (>99%)
Kitchener Winsome M Goodwin Guisbro' 9d 727

Here's the local index hits

Year Forename Initial Ref Number Click to contact
Search births - results for KITCHENER
1911 DORIS S R-0-LOF41-0-264 Redcar & Cleveland
1913 GERALD E R-0-LOF42-0-342 Redcar & Cleveland
1915 GEORGE L R-0-LOF45-0-89 Redcar & Cleveland
1917 PERCY R-0-LOF46-0-165 Redcar & Cleveland
1930 WINSOME M R-0-SKE1A-0-327 Redcar & Cleveland
1886 ARTHUR R-0-MAR37-0-448 Redcar & Cleveland
Search births - results for ROBSON
1916 FRANCES R-0-LOF45-0-251 Redcar & Cleveland
1926 ARTHUR R-0-LOF53-0-1 Redcar & Cleveland

This local ref has a leading identifier for the office now holding the registers
R=Redcar & Cleveland, M=Middlesbrough, H=Hartlepool etc
then a typical local ref has 3 elements
1) a subdistrict code identifying the series of registers holding the birth (or death, or (for marrs) identifying the church or else registrar's own register)
2) a sequence number within the series
3) a page number or entry number - most local rego's have 500 entries (the registrar's own marr rego might have 200 entries)
Bs & Ds are 5 entries per local page; Ms are 2 entries per local page.
Local marr indexes refs usually use entry #, so one knows who wed whom.
(Since the final element of our refs can exceed 100, thy must be entry #s not page #s)

In a FreeBMD hit, clicking on the "Guisbro" link, then the more info "here" link brings up details of the RD, like the villages and parishes within the RD, plus other info like:

GUISBOROUGH REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Sub-districts : Danby, Guisborough (Guisbrough), Kirk Leatham, Lofthouse (Loftus), Marske, Skelton.
Registers now held by : Redcar & Cleveland and North Yorkshire.

It's not hard to guess what LOF, MAR and SKE refer to.

One possible marriage for parents of Winsome????

Marriages Dec 1908 (>99%)
xxxx GOODWIN Jane Pontefract 9c 227
HAMER May Ellen Pontefract 9c 227
xxxx KITCHENER Arthur Pontefract 9c 227
MARSHALL Thomas Pontefract 9c 227


I was just looking at this 1911:-

Elizabeth Goodwin Head Widow Female - 63 1848 Staffordshire Hanley Transcription
Samuel Goodwin Son Single Male Coal Miner Hewer 26 1885 Yorkshire Purston Transcription
Samuel Goodwin Visitor Widower Male Carter 66 1845 Staffordshire Hanley Transcription
Margaret Ann Goodwin Visitor Widow Female Dressmaker 33 1878 Yorkshire Hull Transcription
James Norman Goodwin Grandson - Male School 10 1901 Yorkshire Purston Transcription

Arthur Kitchener Son In Law Married Male Coal Miner Hewer 24 1887 Yorkshire Mask Transcription
Jane Kitchener Daughter Married Female - 22 1889 Yorkshire Purston Transcription
John Reginald Kitchener Grandson - Male - 1 1910 Yorkshire Purston Transcription
Ada Kitchener Granddaughter - Female - 0 1911 Yorkshire Castleford

Which shows that Arthur Kitchener was from Marske which is just next to Redcar so not impossible.

Here's the marr mentioned:

Marriages Sep 1950 (>99%)
KITCHENER Winsome M ROBSON Cleveland 1b 1433
Robson Arthur Kitchener Cleveland 1b 1433

I checked with the local index and, like the GRO index above, it also gives the surname as Kitchener.

http://www.teesvalley-indexes.co.uk/
Result Year Forename (Surname) Initial Ref Number Click to contact
1 1950 WINSOME (KITCHENER) M R-X3G-3-0-65 Redcar & Cleveland
2 1950 ARTHUR (ROBSON) R-X3G-3-0-65 Redcar & Cleveland


It would seem Arhur has an older sister?
Births Dec 1926 (>99%)
Robson Arthur Brough Guisbro' 9d 726

Births Mar 1916 (>99%)
Robson Frances Brough Guisbro 9d 821


There are 4 Kitchener-Goodwin births rego'ed in Guisbro 1911q4-1917q2 but it seeems a large gap to Winsome, so I'm thinking this was another couple

Births Mar 1930 (>99%)
Kitchener Winsome M Goodwin Guisbro' 9d 727


I can't find any marrs for these couples.
I checked the other names indexed to these 3 pages, and there are no repeats for our 3 forenames, so they don't look like illegitimate births.
Maybe the fathers wed widows.

Unless you know more from family stories (which would seem unlikely here as your friend seems to lack even the grandparents' names), then I really think you need the parents b.certs to progress.

Ann's suggestion of contacting the tree owners who have Winsome is a route to try first - it certainly is cheaper.

two trees on this site have Winsome

Winsome Kitchener 1930 Carlin How, Saltburn...
Winsome Kitchener 1930 England, North Yorks...

Use "Search" top right hand corner of this page and you can contact the tree owners

Would think you will need Winsome's birth cert for her parents names

There are other Kitchener/Goodwin births guisbiro but they are spread around the years and a big gap from 1917 to winsome so birth so would recommend getting her birth cert

Their marriage cert too should name their fathers which would help

sibling?

Name Frances Robson
Event Type Birth Registration
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year 1916
Registration District Guisborough
County Yorkshire
Event Place Guisborough, Yorkshire, England
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3) Brough
Volume 9D
Page 821
Line Number 122

??????????

Name Arthur Robson
Event Type Birth Registration
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year 1926
Registration District Guisborough
County Yorkshire
Event Place Guisborough, Yorkshire, England
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3) Brough
Volume 9D
Page 726
Line Number 143

Name Arthur Robson
Event Type Death Registration
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year 1996
Registration District East Cleveland
County Yorkshire
Event Place East Cleveland, Yorkshire, England
Birth Date (available after June quarter 1969) 25 Oct 1926
Volume 3491
Page A17

Name Winsome M Kitchener
Event Type Marriage Registration
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year 1950
Registration District Cleveland
County Yorkshire
Event Place Cleveland, Yorkshire, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911) Robson
Volume 1B
Page 1433
Line Number 104

Winsome M Kitchener probably married one of the following people
Name Arthur Robson

Name Winsome M Kitchener
Event Type Birth Registration
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year 1930
Registration District Guisborough
County Yorkshire
Event Place Guisborough, Yorkshire, England
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3) Goodwin
Volume 9D
Page 727
Line Number 119

I have been asked by a friend to help him find his grandparents but there is a problem because I don't know how to tackle the problem without seeing both his parents birth certificates. (which he doesn't have)
My friends father was one Arthur Robson b Oct 1926 in Redcar, Yorkshire, died in 1966 and his mother was Winsome M Kitchen. Winsome b Feb 1930, married Arthur in Sep 1950.
Arthur's mothers maiden name was Brough and Winsome's mothers maiden name was Goodwin.
Can you help me trace both of Arthur's and Winsome's parents.
Many thanks in advance.