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Thank you to everyone helping I did have the two other children Caroline and Edward but looks like there could b earlier ones Kind Regards Pam

you posted ..........

"In the Will for Edward Thomas he left his money to Eliza Haynes (Spinster) and his son Frederick, "

Do you have the actual will???

or are you just taking this from the Probate Record on ancestry??


If the latter, then he did not leave his money to Eliza Haynes and Frederick ...... they were the Executors responsible for proving the will and then in disbursing the estate as directed in the will.

Two possible deaths for Harriet

Deaths Dec 1838 (>99%)
Birch Harriett Manchester 20 411
Birch Harriott Manchester 20 402


this one may be too late .........

Deaths Dec 1841 (>99%)
BIRCH Harriet Manchester 20 425

I don't know whether you have these, but there seem to be 2 extra children that you did not mention

from ancestry


Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1901 (Cathedral)


Name: Caroline Birch
Baptism Date: 17 Oct 1830
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Edward Thomas Birch
Mother's name: Ann Birch
Archive Roll: 760

from image:-
Address:- Manchester
Occupation:- Shuttle Maker


Name: Edward Birch
Baptism Date: 12 Mar 1834
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Edward Birch
Mother's name: Anne Birch
Archive Roll: 762

Address:- Manchester
Occupation:- Shuttle Maker


Name: Frederic Birch
Baptism Date: 29 Nov 1835
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Edward Birch
Mother's name: Anna Birch
Archive Roll: 762

Address:- Manchester
Occupation:- Shuttle Maker


Name: Sophia Birch
Baptism Date: 28 Apr 1841
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Edward Birch
Mother's name: Ann Birch
Archive Roll: 764

Address:- Manchester
Occupation:- Shuttle Maker


Name: Alfred Thomas Birch
Birth Date: 14 Feb 1843
Baptism Date: 16 Jun 1843
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Edward Thomas Birch
Mother's name: Anne Birch
Archive Roll: 765

Address:- Manchester
Father occupation:- Shuttle Maker




Plus ?????

Other children ????????

Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1901 (Cathedral)

Name: Matilda Birch
Baptism Date: 21 Sep 1832
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Edward Birch
Mother's name: Hannah Birch
Archive Roll: 761

Address:- Manchester
Father occupation:- Shuttle Maker


Name: Harriet Birch
Baptism Date: 29 Nov 1837
Parish: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name: Edward Birch
Mother's name: Ann Birch
Archive Roll: 763

Address:- Manchester
Occupation:- Shuttle Maker

you should also look for Hannah and Annie, as well as Anna and Annah

..... all those are variants that were used, especially in the Manchester area .............. my gt grandmother was called Hannah / Annie / Anna, and took ages to sort out :-)

?
England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) SOPHIA
Last name BIRCH
Gender Female
Death quarter 3
Death year 1842
District MANCHESTER
County Lancashire
Volume 20
Page 463

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1842
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
BIRCH Sophia 1 Deansgate Archives+, Manchester Central Library DEA/12/153

Thank you very much that is brilliant. I think that daughter Sophia b 1841 may have died in infancy. Will check death records again. Kind Regards Pam

(from Find My Past, the below)


Missing data / damaged records
The 1851 census contains transcriptions and reconstructed images for around 180,000 individuals - available online for the first time - which have been retrieved from severely damaged pages.

The records for the Manchester, Chorlton, Salford, Oldham and Ashton-Under- Lyne registration districts were water damaged many years ago due to flooding.

As a result many were too fragile to be filmed or no writing was visible, but a 14 year project by the Manchester and Lancashire Family History Society (MLFHS) has recovered information from around 82 per cent of the damaged records.

The reconstructed images follow the same layout as the originals, and where relevant include details of neighbouring households.


1851 (Find My Past)
Illegible Birch Head Married Male 50 1801 Master Shuttle Maker Lancashire, England
Illegible Birch Wife Married Female 46 1805 - Staffordshire, England
Caroline Birch Dau Unmarried Female 20 1831 Domestic Manchester, Lancashire, England
Alfred Birch Son Unmarried Male 17 1834 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire, England
Edward Birch Son Unmarried Male 8 1843 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Edwards Servant Unmarried Female 15 1836 Domestic Servant Cheshire, England
Street Sidney Street (7)
Parish Manchester
County Lancashire
Hamlet Chorlton
Registration district Chorlton
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 2220

Chris :)

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1843

BIRCH Alfred T Deansgate Archives+, Manchester Central Library (Mother Maiden Name) PEACE DEA/14/53

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

(if anything else on above)

I don't think the Parks have anything to do with the Birches.

Having looked at the image for the 1851 census (how on earth has anyone managed to transcribe as much as they have from such a damaged page??), I don't think Andrew's surname is Park. I don't know what it is, but it looks like a much longer name.

Isabel Park is the Head of the household, and she's unmarried, I think.
Andrew comes next - I think he's a lodger, and married.
Then there's Charles somebody (a name beginning with H ?).
There's also a fourth person in the household, whose name I can't make out at all.

The next house is unoccupied.

Then there's one (or more) households after that, whose names I can't make out at all - nine people in all.

The Birches are at the top of the next page, starting with Caroline, daughter.
Therefore some of the unreadable people at the bottom of the first page must be Birches.

Oh yes, I can just make out that "Head" and "Wife" at the bottom of the previous page are named Birch.

Anyway, they're definitely not in the same household. There are at least two households between the Birches and Isabel Park's household.

On the baptism for eldest Daughter Caroline she is just Ann and on Birth Certificate for Alfred Thomas she is Anna Peace . not sure how Park family fit in ? Thanks Pam

could anna birch be hanna i can see deaths for hanna that could be her

this could be daughter sophia


Preview Name Events Relationships Details Image

Sophia Birch
Employee
England and Wales Census, 1851
birth: England
residence: 1851 Isle of Man

Name Sophia Birch
Age 12
Gender F
Birthplace England
Relationship to Head of Household Servant
Schedule Type Household

A lot of the 1851 census for Manchester was damaged, could be why you can't find them.

There is this - the image is very badly damaged. The Birchs are at the top of the page and the previous page is unreadable - not sure where the Parks come from - can't see them on the image:


Name:Alfred Birch
Age:8
Estimated birth year:abt 1843
Relation:Son (Child)
Mother's name:Isabel Park
Gender:Male
Where born:Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:Chorlton upon Medlock
Ecclesiastical parish:All Saints
Isabel Park 41
Andrew Park 19
Charles
Caroline Birch 20
Edward Birch 17
Alfred Birch 8
Elizabeth Edwards 15

A lot of the 1851 census for Manchester was damaged, could be why you can't find them.

I am looking for Edward Thomas Birch born approx. 1807. Manchester. He married Annah Peace on 10th June 1829 in Manchester. His occupation was Shuttlemaker . I have found them all in the 1841 Census Their children are Caroline b 1830. Edward b 1834 Frederick b 1835 Sophia b 1841 and Alfred Thomas b 14 Feb 1843 Manchester. I have a copy of the Birth Certificate for Alfred Thomas confirming Mother as Anna Peace .. Some records are transcribing Birch as "Bisch". Edward Thomas died on 22nd February 1859 but I have been unable to find any of them in 1851 Census?. In the Will for Edward Thomas he left his money to Eliza Haynes (Spinster) and his son Frederick, this may mean his wife has already died. Just cant find them in 1851. Many Thanks Pam