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Different man.

Gins did actually say 'maybe not' when she added all the info

I'm a bit puzzled about Gins 1911 and WW1 death (I sometimes need things explained in easy words!!)

That 1911 census for a George Ernest Holdsworth has a 17 year old whereas the man who died 3 May 1917 was 43. His widow was "Frances A" per Register of Soldiers Effects.

When the info becomes available, let us know, and we'll go from there

The marriage in 1915 seems to fit with the 3 births....................but.............WW1 was in progress..

Tolson was the MMN, but was it the name under which the mother married?

There is an 'E' in the marriage record for her, but not in the birth you have suggested may be hers.

Does your friend have ANY certs?

Hi Jacqueline, I am still waiting to hear back from my 'friend' on the info promised. Perhaps, now it's Saturday, he will find the time to look out the info promised and we can move on.

You haven't answered my question about when these people died............

Some facts from your 'friend' would be useful

The 1911 I posted earlier, seems this is likely him


Name:George Holdsworth

Residence:Manningham, Yorks <<<<<<<<<<<<<same as 1911

Death Date:3 May 1917

Death Place:France and Flanders

Enlistment Place:Bradford, Yorks

Rank:Corporal

Regiment:Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire) Regiment

Battalion:2 6th Battalion

Regimental Number:240560

Type of Casualty:Killed in action

Theatre of War:Western European Theatre

Maybe not


CorporalService No:240560Date of Death:03/05/1917Age:43Regiment/Service:West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) 2nd/6th Bn. Panel Reference:Bay 4.Memorial:ARRAS MEMORIALAdditional Information:Husband of F. A. Holdsworth, of 72, Silk St, Manningham, Bradford, Yorks.

Perhaps we need to be looking a little bit earlier for Annie and George

The only birth for Annie E Tolson I can find is

Births Jun 1885
Tolson Annie Eliza Weardale 10a 290

No, we're OK. It's a different George Ernest as he is down as a batchelor.

I thought perhaps I was pushing my multi-tasking skills beyond my limit, potting on my fuchsia grown cuttings into 'nice' pots for display, making Spagetti Bolonaise from scratch - no jars - and keeping my GR thread going.
My picture is one of my grown cuttings, Lillian Annettes

Thank you Londonbelle, you seem to have given me the dreaded cat & pigeons scenario! I thought I had got George Ernest marrying Annie E Tolson in 1915 as she is given as the mother of his children, including

Births Jun 1920
Holdsworth Joseph H Tolson N. Bierley
9b 30

???

Looks like I will have to look for Annie Tolsons death?

This looks like it could be George Ernest b 1893 Marriage (Non-conformist)

Name: George Ernest Holdsworth occ Furniture Saleman (Bachelor)
Birth Date: abt 1893
Event Type: Marriage
Father: Ernest Holdsworth occ Wool Sorter
Marriage Date: 1 Sep 1920
Marriage Age: 27
Address 59 Tarfield Terrace, Bradford
Spouse: Emily Gladys Lacey
Spouse Marriage Age: 23
Archive Location: Wakefield
Parish or Chapel: Kirkgate Chapel
Spouse Father: George Lacey
Residence Place: Bradford
Reel Number: Bradford, Stephen Road (Later Bethel Methodist); WC 5

Witnesses W Holdsworth, C Holdsworth & George Lacey

Thank you Jacqueline and Londonbelle, you are giving me the reminders of how I used to operate but the old memory has been playing up a bit recently.

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
51, Villiers Street, Horton, Bradford, Yorkshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Richard Tolson Head Married Male 28 1833 Machine Fitter Yorkshire, England Transcription
Abel Tolson Son - Male 5 1856 Scholar Leeds, Yorkshire, England Transcription
George Tolson Son - Male 2 1859 - Leeds, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Emma Tolson Sister Unmarried Female 18 1843 - Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Transcription

Thank you Gins, it looks very hopeful for taking me further back. I just hope my friend has further evidence to confirm this.

You will be able to find the parents on the FREE 1871 and 1881 censuses on familysearch

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
52 Harlow Road Lidget Green Bradford, Bradford, Yorkshire, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Clara Ethel Tolson Daughter Single Female Reeler 26 1885 Bradford Yorks Transcription
Lily Agnes Tolson Daughter Single Female Weaver Worsted Factory 26 1885 Bradford Yorks Transcription
Annie Tolson Daughter Single Female Mender Worsted Factory 20 1891 Bradford Yorks Transcription
Polly Tolson Daughter Single Female Weaver Worsted Factory 18 1893 Bradford Yorks Transcription
Ernest Tolson Son Single Male Shop Assistant Grocery 14 1897 Bradford Yorks Transcription
Abel Tolson Head Married Male Engineer 54 1857 Leeds Yorks Transcription
Mary Ann Tolson Wife Married Female - 54 1857 Kildwick Yorks

Births Mar 1916 (>99%)
Holdsworth Ivy Tolson N.Bierley 9b 44

Births Jun 1920 (>99%)
Holdsworth Joseph H Tolson N. Bierley 9b 30


Births Sep 1925 (>99%)
Holdsworth Dorothy Tolson Bradford 9b 307

When did George and Annie die?

Possible Bapt?

Name: George Emest Holdsworth
Parish: Bowling, St Stephen
Baptism Date: 7 Mar 1894
Father's name: Ernest Holdsworth occ Wool Sorter
Mother's name: Lavinia Holdsworth
Address 30 Lowfield Road

Also baptised on that day was Herbert Holdsworth & Charles Holdsworth

Is this your man

George Emest Holdsworth
[Goerge Emest Holdsworth]

Age in 1911:17

Estimated birth year:abt 1894

Relation to Head:Son (Child)

Gender:Male

Birth Place:Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish:Bradford

County/Island:Yorkshire-West Riding

Street address:
38 Highgale Heaton Bradford Yorks

Marital Status:Single

Occupation:Greengrocer Assistant

Registration district:Bradford

Registration District Number:498

Sub-registration district:Manningham

ED, institution, or vessel:12

Piece:26775

Household Members:


Joseph Hard 50
Harriett Davies 57
Elizabeth Mayr Reveley 57
Frank Reveley 28
Edward George Reveley 26
Gordon Reiginald Reveley 12
Silas Jessop 28
Ennest Holdsworth 48 Woolsorter
Lavinia Holdsworth 45
George Emest Holdsworth 17
Wilfred Holdsworth 14
Fled Holdsworth 12
Mary Ann Holdsworth 10
Nellie Holdsworth 7
Lily Holdsworth 5

Last time I was researching for 'a friend' the 1911 Census Gov Uk site was still operational in March. Now I have a 'new friend' and the site I have relied on for years has gone !

My research centres around the Holdsworth family and currently I am sure of :-
Births Jun 1920
Holdsworth Joseph H Tolson N. Bierley
9b 30
parents
Marriages Jun 1915
Holdsworth George E Tolson N.Bierley
9b 155

Tolson Annie E Holdsworth N.Bierley
9b 155

My hope for George E and wife is

Births Sep 1893
HOLDSWORTH George Ernest Bradford, Y.
9b 24


Births Mar 1891
Tolson Annie Bradford, Y.
9b 162

If anybody can see them in 1911 it could suggest they are the right couple.
I know you are going to tell me to get my 'friend' to get a marriage certificate for

Marriages Jun 1953
HOLDSWORTH Joseph H FLESHER Bradford
2b 270

FLESHER Mary E HOLDSWORTH Bradford
2b 270

and there is every chance this will turn up next time he surfaces but I would like to be prepared.

Many thanks,
Frances