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Well done Rootgatherer!!

I have sent for Alice Maud's birth cert

That's what keeps us interested Gritty. Well done to you for finding the proof that it was the correct Alice Maud. I had looked at the 1891 census but discarded it when we thought that Alice was born around 1895. Oh these vane ladies who knock a few years off their age! I'm sure they would be quick enough to admit their age when it comes time to collect their state pension lol :-D

Yes Rootgatherer- quite amazing how it went full circle and the answer ended up being the first post on here :-D

So the baptism posted on page 1 is correct after all. So Margee I didn't mislead you, it was Alice Maud being economical about her true age! :-) :-)

Haha! Good spot Gerry! I think that finally confirms Alice and May are the correct people. :-)

I cannot believe it. I have only just noticed the 1911 census with Alice Tyler (Alice Platt) and May Tyler (Alice Maud Platt) was signed by friend Harold Bertie Connock, music hall artist who spent a number of years living with Alice Maud and her husband Arnold Bartlett.

Gritty

You are brilliant. I think you are absolutely right. All the previously tantalising bits of info now all come together. The 1881 Census is the catalyst that gives us the answers.

I think you are also right about Alice Maud's age on the marriage cert. It wouldn't be the first time as I know from past experience.

You have made me a very happy chappy and my friend will be over the moon.

THANKYOU

Jean, thank you for your comment and I hope your extremely long search comes to an end soon

Gerry
:-D :-D :-D :-D

Just reading through this very interesting thread and would just like to add that my maternal grandfather was shown as a scenic artist on his childrens birth certificates but as house painter on his death certificate.
He seems to have disappeared between 1891 and 1920 when his 1st son was born .
So I presume he was travelling around painting scenery for the theatre and possibly circuses .
I have been look ing for him for about 6 years now if not longer.
Someone might remember the thread about Samuel Davidson Boe. b 1874.

This best be correct- my eyeballs are bleeding!!

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
17, Patchett Street, Hulme, Chorlton, Lancashire, England

Georgina Wadsworth Head Widow Female 45 1836 Housekeeper Stapeley, Cheshire,
James Platt Son Married Male 24 1857 Scene Painter Manchester, Lancashire,
Alice Platt Daughter In Law Married Female 24 1857 Actor/ Ballet Dancer Congleton, Cheshire,
Teresa A Platt Grand Son Single Female 1 1880 - Manchester, Lancashire,
Mary Wakearan Sister Single Female 52 1829 Lace Transferrer Stapeley, Cheshire,
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same family in 1891:
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Maple Street, Hulme, Chorlton, Lancashire, England

James Platt Head Married Male 38 1853 Car Driver Manchester, Lancashire,
Alice Platt Wife Married Female 32 1859 - Poplar, Middlesex, England
Theresa Platt Daughter - Female 11 1880 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Maud Platt Daughter - Female 4 1887 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
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Despite the age difference between the census and her marriage, I believe that Maud (1887) is our Alice Maud Platt/ May Tyler.

:-D :-D :-D

So this IS Alice Maud's Baptism:
Name: Alice Maud Platt
Birth Date: 7 Aug 1886
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1886
Parish: Hulme, St Mary
Parish as it Appears: S Marys Hulme
Father's name: James Platt (Painter)
Mother's name: Alice Platt
Reference Number: M321/2/1/3
Item Number: 6
Archive Roll: 822

Second marriage of James' Mum:

Name: Georgina Platt Wood (Widow)
Birth Year: abt 1838
Age: 35
Marriage Date: 5 Jun 1873
Parish: Manchester, St John
Parish as it Appears: Manchester
Father's name: George Warkman (surgeon)
Spouse's Name: Joseph Wadsworth
Spouse's Father's Name: Joseph Wadsworth

Her first marriage- likely to be James' father:

Name: Georgiana Wakeman
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 6 Apr 1858
Marriage Place: Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England
Spouse: James Platt

James Baptism:
Name: James Platt
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 22 Mar 1857
Baptism Place: St. George, Hulme, Lancashire, England
Father: James Platt
Mother: Georginia Wakeman
FHL Film Number: 2113127
Reference ID: yr 1857 p 185

THINK I HAVE THEM??!!! Give me a second

:-D

I suspect they were a travelling family- these maybe May Tyler although not possible if she was born around 1895!- but I'm wondering if she lied about her age on her marriage to make her age fit with her husbands? If I see anything else I'll let you know.

The Era - Saturday 04 September 1897

AMUSEMENTS IN EASTBOURNE

EMPIRE- Lessee Mr Albert Lewis; Manager Mr Fred Southern,...Varieties are contributed by Little Florence, eccentric comedian, who appears for a second week, Miss Lottie Albert, comedienne, Miss May Tyler, a charming and clever serio, and Miss Nellie Varden also appear.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The Era - Saturday 29 January 1898

DOVER
CHEVER'S PALACE OF VARIETIES
.....Miss May Tyler, serio and dancer
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Era - Saturday 26 February 1898

EASTBOURNE
Empire Palace of Varieties
....Miss May Tyler, comedienne and dancer is well received...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Era - Saturday 24 December 1898

DOVER
CHEVER'S PALACE OF VARIETIES
.....Miss May Tyler, serio and dancer
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The Era - Saturday 04 February 1899

Southend on Sea
CRITERION HALL OF VARIETIES
....The artists engaged for the week are Mr Bert Conway, comedian; Miss May Tyler, comedienne....
---------------------------------------------------------------------

So the Tylers at 25 Dante Road are almost certainly the correct people- so we know that May/ Alice Maud was born somewhere around Manchester and her mother was born Kentish town.

Interestingly I did see quite a few articles listing a May Tyler,Serio & Dancer, and later on Comedienne & Dancer. I'm just going to take a look at the dates- back in a bit.

I can now confirm Alice Maud went by the stage name May Tyler and her business card says "Comedienne & Speciality Dancer". The address is given as 36 Chester Mews, Regent Park.

Alice Maud and husband Arnold lived at 36 Chester Mews form 1925 to 1931/33.

All very interesting but doesn't really get me very far!!

damn! :-D

Seeing as May TYler is shown as being born in Manchester in 1891, then the marriage Ann posted looks compelling...

Name: James Platt
Spouse's Name: Alice Taylor
Event Date: 02 Aug 1890
Event Place: Saint John The Evangelist, Accrington, Lancashire, England

Alice Taylor - how easy to have a stage name of Tyler?

Total conjecture of course :-)

EDIT no this marriage is on Ancestry - he a widower and she a widow maiden name Hirst and both born in 1830s

Jude

I feel the Tyler's are the correct people, but as you say, we have no proof of this- but even with proof, I still can't see them on any other census. SO yes- Very frustating :-D

Arnold was still serving in the army in 1918- so could've seen the Zig Zag cast in quite a few places. Newspaper articles 1918 have it playing in London, Birkenhead and Paris.

Hi Gritty

Are you getting as frustrated as I have been for months? LOL. Thank you for your persistence.

I have just spoken to my friend whose Tree this is and she thinks May Tyler may be Alice Maude's stage name. She is going to check all her paperwork and let me know. However, I am not getting too excited yet as she has a bad habit of latching onto things only to find out later she was wrong!! Hi Ho.

There are so many little threads that suggest this or that but they remain elusive

Gerry :-(

I still haven't given up on this.

Just throwing this stuff down so I don't keep going round in circles-

James is not present at his wife's death, nor is he the informant. He is also not a witness to his daughter's wedding and nor is he living at Chatteris Square or Dante Road. So we have no proof of his existence, other than the information provided on the death and marriage certs by Alice Maud.

The other witness:
1922:
22 Chatteris Square, New Kent Road, Southwark.
Florence Annie Harman

In 1920 she's at same address but living with a George Harman.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I keep seeing this family- putting it here just in case:
1911: 16 Berger Road, Homerton N E
Elizabeth Platt Head 1846 65 Female Wid London, 5 children still living.
Alfred Platt Son 1874 37 Male Married MUSIC HALL ARTIST Merton
Fred Platt Son 1880 31 Male Single HOUSE PAINTER Merton

First of all APOLOGIES. I didn't respond later last night because like an idiot I didn't realise the thread had moved onto a second page!!

I would like to thank you all again for your help and interest. Having read the posts from post 9.00 last night and today I am feeling a bit more hopeful.

I will now endeavor to answer the various queries.

Harold Bertie Connock (the witness) was obviously a family friend as I have traced him living with Alice Maud and her husband Arnold Batlett at various times and addresses in London from 1920 to 1956.

Alice was a wardrobe mistress in the theatre and daughter Alice Maud was a music hall artist.

Alice's death cert says she died in the "temporary workhouse infirmary Westmoreland Rd" . It also says she was "of 25 Dante Rd, wife of James Platt a scenic artist". The informant was A M Platt, daughter, 25 Dante Rd"

When Alice Maud married Arnold Bartlett in 1920 she gave her address as 22 Chatters(?) Square, New Kent Rd, the same as Arnold's address.

Just to add a bit of spice, its is believed Arnold had an affair with a music hall chorus girl who went by the name of Olga. There a photo post card of her which says "to Arnold from your sweetheart Olga" She was in a show called Zigzag in 1918. She is another blooming mystery I cannot resolve!!

Gerry :-)

It's interesting that the occupation of the Alice Platt admitted to the workhouse in Feb 1916 was a Dresser (would that be theatrical, or another sort?). She was admitted by the order of Carlisle.