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I was pretty certain, that despite Georgiana's listings for her father on her marriages, that the Wakeman's were fairly straight forward- but maybe not??. This is quickly what I had originally:

George Wakeman born c1790 married Mary Cliff in 1818 Nantwich Cheshire and had the following children:
George Washington Wakeman 1819
Mary E Wakeman 1826
Francis Henry Wakeman 1832
Georgiana Wakeman 1833

I had George and Mary as this 1841:
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Stapeley, Wybunbury, Nantwich, Cheshire, England
George Wakeman Male 45 1796 Farmer Not born in County
Mary Wakeman Female 35 1806 Cheshire, England
Mary Wakeman Female 15 1826 Cheshire, England
Francis Wakeman Male 10 1831 Cheshire, England

And Georgiana with her Grandparents in 1841:
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
High Street, Nantwich, Cheshire, England
Joseph Cliff Male 40 1801 Upholsterer & drapier Cheshire
Mary Cliff Female 65 1776 Cheshire, England
George Wakeman Male 20 1821 Cheshire, England
Georgiana Wakeman Female 14 1827 Cheshire, England
Margaret Mullock Female 55 1786 Cheshire, England
Elizabeth Smith Female 20 1821 Cheshire, England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't want to confuse anything, and I can't see that this man fits- but wanted to put these up just in case:

Oxford University and City Herald - Saturday 15 October 1825
On Monday last was married at Thame, in this county, George Wakeman Esq, surgeon of that place, to Sarah Jayne, daughter of the late Edward Payne Esq. of Lash Lake, Thame.

Hereford Times - Saturday 31 October 1846
....The trial of the five jesuits proceeded, and they were condemned and executed on the testimony of Oats and Bedloe. But these daring witnesses were somewhat astounded at the acquittal of Sir George Wakeman, the Queen's physician, whom they accused of an intention to poison the king.

Bucks Herald - Saturday 23 August 1845
On the 18th Inst at Thame, Oxon, of a rapid decline, George, eldest son of Mr George Wakeman, surgeon, and late of St. John's College, Cambridge, age 19 years.
---------------------------------------------------------

This is the 1841 for George Wakeman (Surgeon) that married in 1825:

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
High Street, Thame, Oxfordshire, England
George Wakeman Male 50 1791 Surgeon. Not born in County
Sarah Wakeman Female 50 1791 Oxfordshire, England
Jane Wakeman Female 13 1828 Oxfordshire, England
Edward Wakeman Male 12 1829 Oxfordshire, England
Hannah Wakeman Female 11 1830 Oxfordshire, England
Susan Wakeman Female 9 1832 Oxfordshire, England
Herbert Wakeman Male 7 1834 Oxfordshire, England
Cors Mitchell Male 25 1816 Oxfordshire, England
Mary Herridge Female 25 1816 -
Eliz Wakelin Female 20 1821 Oxfordshire, England
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and in 1851:
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
High Street, Thame New Thame, Thame, Oxfordshire, England
Sarah Jane Wakeman Wife Married Female 62 1789 - Thame, Oxfordshire,
Henry Terry Servant Unmarried Male 23 1828 Serv Groom Ashendon, Buckinghamshire,
Ann Higgins Servant Unmarried Female 25 1826 Serv Ho Maid Thame, Oxfordshire, England
Mary Griffin Servant Unmarried Female 25 1826 Serv Cook Ludgershall, Bucks
Herbert John Wakeman Son Unm 17 1834 Articled Clerk To Attorney Thame, Oxfordshire,
Jane Wakeman Daughter Unm Female 23 1828 - Thame, Oxfordshire, England
George Wakeman Head Married 62 1789 Surgeon In General Pract'Ce Buckworth, Huntingdonshire,
Hannah Mary Wakeman Daughter Un Female 20 1831 Thame, Oxfordshire,
-------------------------------------------------------------

WOW Safc, Chris Ho and Gritty.

I was going to watch the election but when i saw what you had all found I couldn't help but check it all out and see how it all came together.

The first thing that strikes me is my friend's family were entertainers going back 4 generations. Quite amazing.

It took me ages to find the census you found Safc. Don't know why, but without your input i would probably still be looking!!

Chris, the baptism info you gave me was great and I love the the info about the painting by John Crome. Goodness knows where and how you found it.

I downloaded the Alice Mary Crome "baptism" info Gritty and was able to have a good look at it. What a shame the card was over half the workhouse form. What I CAN see makes interesting reading.

As you say, Alice had two children, one of which (William) was born the day she was admitted to the workhouse on 22/7/1878. Who was born Oct 1876 we will probably never know. There are no records of a Crone being born in London in the last qtr.

The form says that Alice was the 7th child and that Michael Crome died about 2 years ago after he deserted his wife!

I believe the reason they found no baptism record for Alice Mary was because they were looking at the wrong years. The card says "not found 1851 to 1855". Alice later claimed to be born 1857.

So, did Alice actually marry James Platt I wonder? And what happened to her second illegitimate child?

This has become a very interesting Tree and thanks for all your help

Right, its 2.17. Lets see whats happening in the election


Gerry :-)

Fab work!

- a tree on Ancestry also has this family- apparently Alice's brother and sister (John and Marie) were also performers under the name of 'The Barnum Children'. They have some newspaper articles too- worth a look.

There's also this on Ancestry:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Alice Mary Crome
Record Type: Birth
Estimated Birth Date: Jul 1853
Father's name: Michael Sherpe Crome
Mother's name: Teresa Olivia Smith
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Olaves
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

If you look at the actual image it's not a baptism but an application for a search of her birth- it's laid over a workhouse document dated 1878- looks like she had 2 children there (1876 &1878).

EDIT: It was impossible to see the children's names on the document but it clearly says born 22nd July 1878- so this must be one of the children:

William Henry Crome (illegitimate) born in Workhouse (Parish of St Pancras) 22nd July 1878. Name of Parent: Alice Crome.

So what happened to William??

EDIT: William's death:

Name: William H Crome
Record Type: Death
Death Date: 14 Sep 1878
Death Place: St Pancras, England
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Register

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Union Place, Heigham, Norwich, Norfolk, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
Michael Crome Male 25 1816 Norfolk, England
Transcription
Teresa Crome Female 20 1821 Ireland
Transcription
Teresa Crome Female 1 1840 Norfolk, England
Transcription
Lucy Crome Female 0 1841 Norfolk, England
Transcription
Harriet Read Female 15 1826 Norfolk, England


michael is a dancing master

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Southgate Street, Hartlepool, Stockton, Durham, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Bunter Head Married Male 50 1801 Master Mariner Hyde, Isle of Wight, England
Transcription
Jane Bunter Wife Married Female 46 1805 - Sunderland, Durham, England
Transcription
Martha Delawell Daughter W Female 25 1826 Kept By Father Sunderland, Durham, England
Transcription
James Highman Servant Unmarried Male 22 1829 Errand Boy -
Transcription
Mary Ann Carpenter Servant Unmarried Female 21 1830 House Servant Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
Transcription
Bridget Canfell Servant Unmarried Female 30 1821 House Servant Ireland
Transcription
George Recardo Visitor Unmarried Male 25 1826 Vocalist Not Known
Transcription
John Crome Visitor Married Male 35 1816 Dancing Master Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Thresa Crome Visitor Married Female 30 1821 - Ireland
Transcription
Thresa Crome Visitor - Female 11 1840 - Not Known
Transcription
John Crome Visitor - Male 7 1844 - Not Known
Transcription
Maria Crome Visitor - Female 5 1846 - Not Known
Transcription
Susannah Crome Visitor - Female 2 1849 - Not Known

Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Heigham
Church St Bartholomew Bt
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 11 Sep 1839
Forename Teresa
Sex F
FatherForename Michael
MotherForename Teresa
FatherSurname CROME
FatherOccupation Dancing Master


Baptism
County Staffordshire
Place Wolverhampton
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 20 Jul 1852
Forename Sarah Alice
Sex F
FatherForename Michael
MotherForename Theresa
FatherSurname CROME
Abode Nutcrack Row
FatherOccupation Comedian


(if relating anywhere!)


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Chris :)

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 (Ancestry)

Name: Michael Sharpe Crome (Full Age. Dancing Master)
Spouse: Teresa Olivia Smith (Minor. Spinster)
Event Date: 1 Sep 1838
Parish: St James, Clerkenwell
Borough: Islington
Father Name: John Crome (Drawing Master)
Spouse Father: Michael Smith (Dancing Master)
(wits. Wm. Webb, George Royer. Residence at Time, (him) St. Stephen's Norwich, (her) 25, Coppice Row)


http://tinyurl.com/nc3w8xw

(mentioned in above, possibly more on google)


Deaths Sep 1878 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
CROME Michael Sharpe 64 Pancras 1b 43

https://www.deceasedonline.com/

(Burial on above)


http://www.norwich-churches.org/monuments/John%20Crome/John%20Crome.shtm

(John Crome info. and Memorial above)


Deaths Mar 1881 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
CROME Theresa Olivia 64 Mile End 1c 400

????

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1, Christopher Place, Pancras, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Michael Crome Head Married Male 47 1814 Picture Dealer Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
John Crome Son Unmarried Male 17 1844 Performer St Martins, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Maria Crome Daughter - Female 15 1846 Performer Ireland
Transcription
Emily Crome Daughter - Female 9 1852 Scholar Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
Transcription
Alice Crome Daughter - Female 8 1853 Scholar Coryton, Cheshire, England
Transcription
Sarah Crome Housekeeper Unmarried Female 21 1840 Housekeeper -

I don't have much time today- but will get back into this over next few days :-D

Oh, and who did James Platt snr list as his father on the marriage to Georgiana?

Hi to all those interested in this thread. I am back.

I now have Alice Maud's birth cert. She was born 17/8/1886 at 1 Forest St, Hulme.
Her mother's maiden name was Crome. Typically with this family, I now can't in a quick search find the marriage of James Platt and Alice Crome which I would expect to be around late 1870s.

Another little mystery - In addition, I have also got Georgiana Wakeman's marrige cert to James Platt snr (b1836). James profession is shown as Policeman although in 1861 it was invoice clerk and Georgiana's father was a "registra of births and deaths". However when Georgiana Platt Wood married Joseph Wadsworth his profession was surgeon. Georgiana's sister Mary Elizabeth was a witness at both marriages.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

I am going to mow the lawn now and have a ponder

I wondered if Wood was from a previous generation, but Georgiana's mother looks to be Mary Cliff:



George Wakeman

mentioned in the record of George Wakeman and Mary Cliff

Name: George Wakeman
Spouse's Name: Mary Cliff
Event Date: 20 Aug 1818
Event Place: Nantwich, Cheshire, England

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02501-3 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1786141 , Reference ID: item 2 p 67

That makes two of us Gritty

Thanks for all your help and info

Think the Wood connection has beaten me!! I just hope this doesn't keep me awake tonight.

Still can't find the Wood connection :-(

How sad that Georgiana should end her days in the workhouse- however, she did retain links with her family, as it is her niece, Blanche Birtles (Daughter of George Washington Wakeman) who is listed as family on the cemetery records.

This also might be of interest- Georgiana's father was not born in Cheshire according to the 1841. This short entry in the paper re his death states his father was from Staffordshire:

Aris's Birmingham Gazette - Monday 13 February 1843
Thursday last at his residence Stapeley, near Nantwich, after a short illness, in the 54th year of his age, Mr George Wakeman, fourth son of the late Mr William Wakeman of Aldridge, Staffordshire.

The same entry was also in the Manchester Times - Saturday 18 February 1843
--------------------------------------------------------

Last will and testament of George is on FMP- not much of a will- leaves everything to his wife Mary.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Possible baptism of George:

Name: George Wakeman
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 06 Jan 1790
Christening Place: Aldridge, Stafford, England
Father's Name: Wm. Wakeman
Mother's Name: Hannah

I have to work today- but may get a chance later this morning to look, but just wanted to put this up:

First name(s) MARY ELIZABETH
Last name WAKEMAN
Gender Female
Baptism year 1835
Baptism date 06 Dec 1835
Place WYBUNBURY
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Wakeman
Mother's first name(s) Mary
County Cheshire

States George is a Gentleman

There is a note on the baptism which says:
Jas. Hayes Curate. Her certificate of John Latham minister of the parish of Baddeley dated 3rd Oct 1821

- SO this baptism record replaces the one below:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First name(s) Mary Elizabeth
Last name Wakeman
Birth year 1821
Baptism year 1821
Baptism date 03 Oct 1821
Place Nantwich
County Cheshire
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Wakeman
Record set Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish baptisms 1538-1911

States George is a Gentleman

There is also a note added to the side of this Baptism to say that the entry had erroneously been added to Nantwich- "The child having been baptised in the parish of Wynbunbury in the county of Chester ? 3rd Oct 1821 in the presence of George Wakeman.

So it appears that Mary had also shaved a few years off her age on the census too!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other children were George Washington, Arabella and Francis Henry.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just to complete the census which you probably have, but will put for reference- Georgiana in 1841

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
High Street, Nantwich, Cheshire, England
Joseph Cliff Male 40 1801 Upholsterer/ DrapierCheshire, England
Mary Cliff Female 65 1776 Cheshire, England
George Wakeman Male 20 1821 Cheshire, England
Georgiana Wakeman Female 14 1827 Cheshire, England
Margaret Mullock Female 55 1786 Cheshire, England
Elizabeth Smith Female 20 1821 Cheshire, England

I think I remember reading a newspaper article about George Wakeman and Mr Cliff- will look later. The Cliff's were Aunt and Uncle of Georgiana.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mary Elizabeth in 1841
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Stapeley, Wybunbury, Nantwich, Cheshire, England
George Wakeman Male 45 1796 Farmer Not born in county
Mary Wakeman Female 35 1806 Cheshire, England
Mary Wakeman Female 15 1826 Cheshire, England
Francis Wakeman Male 10 1831 Cheshire, England
Phoebe Dean Female 15 1826 Cheshire, England

Hi again Gritty

First of all, the baptism seems right in every respect except for the earlier date. Strangely, her sister (Mary Elizabeth) who was a witness to her 2nd marriage wasn't baptised until 1835 although she was born about 1829, supposedly before Georgiana.

According to Georgiana's 2nd marriage cert her father George was a surgeon

It looks as tho James Platt died in 1867.

The 1871 census is our Georgiana as both her son James and sister Mary Elizabeth are recorded with her, but where on earth did the name Wood come from??

Georgiana's second husband Joseph Wadsworth (druggist) died 1879. He didn't last as quite as long as James Platt!! Do we have a serial killer?

Georgiana did not marry again and died 12/1/1905 in the West Didsdbury Workhouse.

Thats my lot!

I knew this family was going to be a problem!! :-D

I'm putting this up for my reference- will have a look tomorrow, unless someone has solved it.

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
20 Embden Street, Hulme, Chorlton, Lancashire, England

James Tunnicliff Head - Male 60 1811 Carter Belfast, Ireland
Eliza Tunnicliff Wife - Female 57 1814 Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann Tunnicliff Daughter - Female 21 1850 Hulme, Lancashire, England
Georgina Wood Lodger - Female 34 1837 Seamstress Cheshire, England
James Platt Son - Male 14 1857 Baker Lancashire, England
Mary E Wakeman Lodger - Female 44 1827 Lace Business Cheshire, England
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitely older :D

Baptism
First name(s) GEORGIANA
Last name WAKEMAN
Gender Female
Birth year 1827
Baptism year 1827
Baptism date 06 Nov 1827
Place WYBUNBURY
Father's first name(s) George
Father's last name Wakeman
Mother's first name(s) Mary
County Cheshire

George is listed as Gentleman
-----------------------------------------------------------

1851:
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Welch Row, Nantwich, Cheshire, England

Mary Wakerman Head Widow Female 50 1801 Proprietor Of Houses Nantwich, Cheshire, England
Mary E Wakeman Daughter Unmarried Female 25 1826 - Wybunbury, Cheshire, England
Georgina Wakeman Daughter Unmarried Female 22 1829 - Wybunbury, Cheshire, England
Francis H Wakeman Son Unmarried Male 19 1832 Grocer Apprentice Wybunbury, Cheshire, England
Joseph D Cliffe Brother Unmarried Male 52 1799 Draper Nantwich, Cheshire, England

Hmmmmmmm??

Just looking at the second marriage cert for Georgiana (James Platt's mother).

Where and how did she become Platt Wood rather than just Platt? I can find no marriage to a Mr Wood. I am also beginning to think she is somewhat older than she claimed

Tis a very strange family all round!

I will keep you posted

Name: Alice Maud Platt
Registration Year: 1886
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Chorlton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 884

I'd be interested to know her mother's name when it arrives Gerry :-)

Well done!