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I have 2 brothers Benjamin Thwaites 1839 Islington and Rueben Thwaites 1840 Islington.

Thwaites is spelt Thwaite, Thwaits, or in the case of 1851 Shwaites

I have both brothers on the 1841 census ..Ruebin (as spelt) was 6 month old.
I also have both brothers in 1851 living at home as errand boys
Their father Thomas died in 1853 and mother Harriott died in 1860.
All their other 7 siblings were married by 1861. Benjamin also married in 1861 but not until sept quarter ..he married in Portsea, Hants. and died in 1866.

The gap I am trying to fill is where were the brothers in 1861 ??

Also the mystery is what happened to Rueben. I can´t find him at all apart from the 2 census´

I have found a birth for a Rueben Stephen Thwaites in Jan Q 1861 2 things make me unsure of this .....He wouldn´t have been 6mths on the 1841 and no other child had 2 names.

Can anybody find Rueben please
Thank you to all who look :-D :-D

Just for our reference - Ancestry's version of 1851 census:

Reuben Shwartz
in the 1851 England Census

Name: Reuben Shwartz
[Reuben Thwaite]
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Son (Child)
Mother's name: Harriet Shwartz
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:

Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub-registration district: St James Clerkenwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 138
Piece: 1516
Folio: 525
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Harriet Shwartz 50
Thomas Shwartz 16
James Shwartz 14
Benjamin Shwartz 12
Reuben Shwartz 10

Thank you ArgyllGran I know they mistranscribed the T for an S I had forgotten the z on the end.

I don't see Reuben Stephen in any censuses at all, so I think that could be him. The date of the 1841 census was 6th June, so if he was born in early January, or maybe even end of December 1840, he would have been 6 months old at the census.

Births Mar 1841 (>99%)
Thwaites Reuben Stephen Islington 3 172
Thwaits Reuben Stephen Islington 3 172

ArgyllGran I in my grey moment had automatically presumed the 1841 census was in April. June does make Rueben Stephen Thwaites a possible but I can´t even find him, not a census nor a death.

Sorry, I can't see either Reuben or Benjamin in 1861 - so far.

There is R T and B T of about the right ages in 1861 as prisoners. Cant see anything in the criminal records for ID


Name:R T
Age:21
Estimated Birth Year:1840
Relation: Prisoner (Institutional)
Gender:Male
Where born:London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:Clerkenwell
Cunty/Island:Middlesex
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district:Clerkenwell
Sub-registration district:Amwell

ED, institution, or vessel:
Middlesex House of Correction Cold Bath Fields

Neighbors:
View others on page
Household schedule number:1
Piece:194
Folio:131
Page Number:10


Andy

What was Benjamin's occupation and residence on his marriage certificate?

Ben was a seaman on wedding cert

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9102476

Benjamin THWAITE; Rating; Age on entry: [Not Given]; Dates served: [Not Given]; Date and Type of Application: Whitehall 3 June 1863. For the additional following details Born: 24 December 1838, Clerkenwell, London,

Name Thwaites, Benjamin
Place of Birth: Clerkenwell, London
Continuous Service Number: 19239
Date of Volunteering: 07 March 1855
Date of Birth: 24 December 1838

(could relate)

Chris :)

All UK, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972 (Ancestry)

Name: Benjn Thwaite
Medal or Award: China Medal
Service Year: 1856-1860
Service Location: China
Campaign or Service: Second China War
Ship Name: Fury

Just a possibility:

Thwaites alias Waites, Reuben Born: 1840, DOA: 17.1.1855. Notes: Emigrated to Adelaide per "Anne McLean", handout, birth given as December plus notes. reference: 2271/10/10 Folio: 193

http://www.geni.com/projects/Royal-Philanthropic-Society-Farm-School-Redhill-Emigrants-to-Australia/14657

?????

Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985



Name:Reuben Thwaites
Death Date:1888
Death Place:New South Wales
Registration Year:1888
Registration Place:Parramatta, New South Wales
Registration Number:8323


Andy

http://tinyurl.com/jwk8e3e

(Reuben Arrival on above newspaper snippet)

Chris :)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y

(Aus. Newspapers)


NSW BDM Online

Break in Service
Due to technical maintenance, Family History Search is expected to be unavailable from:
•7pm Friday 17 April to 7pm Sunday 19 April 2015.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx

Following on from Andrew's mention of prisoners in 1861:

Just a possibility - no age given - [BUT PROBABLY TOO MUCH OF A LONG SHOT]:

Reuben Waites
in the England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892

Name: Reuben Waites
Date of Trial: 11 Sep 1854
Trial Year: 1854
Location of Trial: Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Sentence: Imprisonment - 12 months
Crime: Larceny in dwelling house
Date of Execution or Release:


If it's him, he would only have been 14 - would they have jailed a 14-yr-old at that time??

Yes they would have jailed a 14yr old so I will have a good guess that it is my Rueben, it would also be the year after his father died.


Thanks everybody for all your help much appreciated
:-D

If you look up the Royal Philanthropic Society Farm School you will see that it was a sort of liberal reform school for young offenders

A small group of British men who were concerned about the number of homeless children who earned a living on London streets by begging or stealing met in St Paul's Coffee House in 1788. The Duke of Leeds backed the men after the meeting and they set up The Philanthropic Society, (TPS) their aim being to aid the reformation of boys who had been engaged in criminal activities.

Some of the young boys were sent to Australia or New Zealand to get them away from bad influences and give them a chance for a new start.

http://www.geni.com/projects/Royal-Philanthropic-Society/14656

So it is perfectly feasible that young Reuben was sent to Australia after being caught thieving.

Beverley I have just been reading it all and agree that Rueben was probably sent to Australia after his thieving exploits

It makes you wonder if he had a choice in it, he had 3 brothers and a Mum at home in 1855 although Ben went to sea that year and the older 2 got married not long after.

Very interesting reading.

Don't forget that many pieces of 1861 are missing, and a high proportion of those are for the Home Counties.

I posted a full list on a thread on here earlier this year.................not a thread I initiated, so I can't promise to find it.

Morning Post - Thursday 15 September 1859

"THE LATE AFFAIR AT THE MOUTH OF THE PEIHO
LISTS OF KILLED AND WOUNDED

Fury
....
Benjamin Thwaites, Ordinary, Slightly"

presumably ordinary seaman, slightly wounded

"London Standard - Friday 28 January 1853

Reuben Thwaites was charged by Mr Ward of Liverpool Street, baker, with having crawled into his shop, thrown himself across the counter and stolen 1£, 12s, 0 1/4d, out of the till. Alderman Wire sentenced the prisoner to imprisonment for 3 months and hard labour."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another article on this incident in Morning Post - Friday 28 January 1853 suggests the prisoner looked to be about 11 years of age-
"The father of the prisoner said that correction had been thrown away upon the unfortunate child, who was, there was every reason to believe, under the tuition of experienced thieves ..."