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This requires a nice calming bottle of wine and an open mind! There are two many coincidences for these not to be bits of the jigsaw....it's just making the round bits fit round bits :-)

Jude

Sorry- If I've made it worse!! I'll try and have a read of the whole thread tomorrow, and maybe make a useful contribution?! :D

I don't think I have ever been so confused in my entire life!

:-D

"Curiouser and curiouser" as said by Alice :-S

Ok- can't see Mary Ann Mintern on 1851 census.

This looks to be birth of Elizabeth Mintern/ Scott's grandson:

Name(s) JOHN HENRY GARRITY MINTERN
Birth year 1858
Birth quarter 3
District LYMINGTON
County Hampshire
Country England
Volume 2B
Page 468

Couldn't see him on 1861- apart from this which I presume is him (with mother M. M- Maria or Mary?). I can't view transciption properly on FMP as it's playing up but I think it's for the Lymington Union Workshouse

M....M b. 1835 Bodre, Lymington, Hampshire. Serv
M....JHG b.1857 Bodre, Lymington, Hampshire. Scholar

I am not ignoring you Gritty...........I just need to have a bit of a lie down in a dark room.

:-D

this is the only baptism I could find for Mary Ann- but states born 1840 (original not available on FMP)

irst name(s) MARY ANNE
Last name MINTERN
Birth year 1840
Baptism year 1840
Baptism day 14
Baptism month Oct
Parish LYMINGTON
Son or daughter Daughter
First parent's first name(s) Elizabeth
Second parent first name(s) -
County Hampshire
Country England
Notes illegitimate

Hmmmm, so where is Mary Ann in 1851?

1871:

James Scott Head - Male 77 1794 - Hampshire, England
Elizabeth Scott Wife - Female 66 1805 - Hampshire, England
Vincent Scott Son - Male 20 1851 - Hampshire, England
Elizabeth Scott Daughter-In-Law - Female 20 1851 - Hampshire, England
John Mintern Grandson - Male 12 1859 - Hampshire, England
Kate Scott Granddaughter - Female 0 1871 - Hampshire, England

Street Bull Hill
Parish Boldre
County Hampshire
Country England
Registration district Lymington
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 1174
Folio 32
Page 4

Maria's Baptism...

Name:Maria Mintern
Gender:Female
Baptism Date:10 May 1835
Baptism Place:Boldre By Lymington,Hampshire,England
Father:Thomas Mintern
Mother:Elizabeth

I was searching for Mary Ann Mintern and Maria popped up. That is what caught my attention.
:-)

The 1851 I found.......


Maria Mintern in the 1851 England Census
Name:Maria Mintern
Age:16
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1835
Relation:Daughter-in-law
Spouse's Name:James Scott
Gender:Female
Where born:Boldre, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish:Boldre
Household Members:


James Scott 56
Elizabeth Scott 49
John Mintern 22
Maria Mintern 16
James Scott 15
Thomas Scott 11
Richard Scott 7
Jane Scott 6
Charles Scott 4
Vincent Scott 3 Mo

John and Maria ........but no Mary Ann Mintern and no Elizabeth.

??
Name:Elizabeth Mintern
Gender:Female
Burial Date:16 Sep 1841 Burial Place:
Boldre, Hampshire, England
FHL Film Number:1596072




Marriages Mar 1847
Scott James Lymington 8 271
MINTERN Elizabeth Lymington 8 271

That is very interesting indeed Gritty.

I have just this minute been researching that family believe it or not.

Popped back on here..........and surprised at what you have posted.

Give me minute to check back on what I found.

I know that Elizabeth Mintern remarried a James Scott.......they appear in the 1851 census with the daughter Maria.......but no Mary Ann

I'm not pretending I understand!! and don't want to confuse things more, but posting this in case it's related (will delete if it's no use to you!):

1841
Lymington, Hampshire
Name of Institution: Lymington Union
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 393
Book number 7
Folio number 4
Page number 4

Elizabeth Mintern 30
John Mintern 12
Maria Mintern 6
Mary Ann Mintern 4

all born in county
----------------------------------------------

The problem is Prickles, as I found out when searching for the death of Sarah Ellen White, is that White is a surprisingly common surname. I only found the correct death for Sarah Ellen on the fourth certificate (and then grrr...she had been certified dead as Ellen Sarah)!

I wouldn't worry about the year of birth/age - only as good as the informant :-)

As Mary Ann White didn't actually marry Stephen Warn Munden and there are no deaths registered for a Mary Ann Munden in Lymington between 1901 and 1911....

A possibility....

(The age is a bit out......because according the census records she was born in abt 1836)

??

Mary White in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 Name:Mary White
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Registration Year:1906
Registration Quarter:Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death:73
Registration district:Lymington
Inferred County:Hampshire
Volume:2b
Page:448

I have just ordered a copy of Ernest's birth certificate.

Checking out the records....there does not appear to be an Ernest White born 1888 Lymington on any census records after 1888.

Delivery in about 7 days.

Fingers crossed it is what we are hoping for!!! :-D

In case anyone thinks I am talking to myself........I am communicating with Marg by message. :-D

Don't you find it rather odd that the only birth registered for an Ernest in Lymington between the marriage of James and Agnes in 1887 and 1891 is......

Births Sep 1888 (>99%)
WHITE Ernest Lymington 2b 608

It has me wondering if Ernest was the illegitimate child of one of Agnes's siblings.

Perhaps he WAS the child with "royal blood" and Agnes and James took him on.

That would also account for the reason why he was transcribed as Ernesta "Niece " on the 1891 census. (To hide the fact of who he really was)

Even if Ernest was the son of Agnes and someone from Palace House.......Surely his birth would not have been registered with the surname of "White"? I would have thought they would have wanted to hide that fact and register his birth with the surname of Carpenter.

Hi again Marg

I am now beginning to wonder if Reginald Norris White is the illegitimate son of Agnes Mary White.......(The child you mentioned regarding Beaulieu Palace House)

He appears as "Reggie" on the 1891 census...Son of Stephen and Mary Ann Munden.

He appears as Stephen and Mary's "Nephew" on the 1901 census.

So was he in fact Mary Ann's Grandson??

On his Short Term Military Service Record........he names his Next Of Kin as...

Brother (1 younger) Ernest.... Townsville, Queensland, Australia.

Perhaps that is why Ernest never mentioned anything about having "Royal Blood" because in actual fact it was Reginald?

Another piece to the puzzle?.... Prickles. :-)

Nudging up for Marg...........

A member who is also connected to this family will take a look on here in a day or two. It will be interesting to hear what she has to say.

Thanks for the input Jan and Jude. Much appreciated.

Boy, it's confusing!!!

Prickles. x