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Yvonne
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7 Mar 2015 01:18 |
I have found two Elizabeth Hornby born to William and Susan Hornby, in Alford, Lincolnshire. One was baptised on 27 Jan 1822 and one on 16 Apr 1823. These were in familysearch and Ancestry. I found a burial for Elizabeth Hornby for 14 Feb 1822 so I assumed the burial was for the first Elizabeth and then they had another child which they named Elizabeth. Sounds simple BUT there is another child, Joseph, and I found a baptism for him for 14 Feb 1822. Would they have a burial and a baptism on the same day??
Thanks.
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Gee
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7 Mar 2015 03:23 |
Looks like the first Elizabeth died as a child
Name:Elizabeth Hornby
Gender:Female
Baptism Date:27 Jan 1822
Baptism Place:Alford,Lincoln,England
Father:William Hornby
Mother:Susan
FHL Film Number:421886
Name:Elizabeth Hornby
Gender:Female
Age:0
Birth Date:1822
Burial Date:14 Feb 1822
Burial Place:Alford, Lincoln, England
FHL Film Number:1541969
Joseph may have been a twin
Name:Joseph Hornby
Gender:Male
Baptism Date:14 Feb 1822
Baptism Place:Alford,Lincoln,England
Father:William Hornby
Mother:Susan
FHL Film Number:421886
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Yvonne
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7 Mar 2015 04:30 |
Yes, I thought about Elizabeth and Joseph being twins but if so, why would they have been baptised on different dates - Elizabeth in January and Joseph in February. It's very mysterious. Thanks.
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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7 Mar 2015 08:07 |
What if Elizabeth was born in 1821 and only baptised in January 1822 because she was unwell?
And that Joseph, having only just been born was baptised on the same day as his sister was buried?
Jude
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+++DetEcTive+++
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7 Mar 2015 10:09 |
County Lincolnshire Place Alford Church St Wilfred RegisterNumber 382 DateOfBirth BaptismDate 27 Jan 1822 Forename Elizabeth Sex F FatherForename William MotherForename Susan FatherSurname HORNBY MotherSurname Abode Alford FatherOccupation labourer Notes FileNumber 23220
County Lincolnshire Place Alford Church St Wilfred RegisterNumber 449 DateOfBirth BaptismDate 18 Apr 1823 Forename Elizabeth Sex F FatherForename William MotherForename Susan FatherSurname HORNBY MotherSurname Abode Alford FatherOccupation labourer Notes FileNumber 23220
The image must be unclear as there is an alternative baptism date for the 1823 entry of 16 April 1823 ............ Burial entry County Lincolnshire Place Alford Church St Wilfred RegisterNumber 184 BurialDate 14 Feb 1821 Forename Elizabeth Relationship Rel1MaleForename Rel1FemaleForename Rel1Surname Surname HORNBY Age infant Abode Alford Notes FileNumber 23814 .................
Joseph's baptism County Lincolnshire Place Alford Church St Wilfred RegisterNumber 386 DateOfBirth BaptismDate 14 Feb 1822 Forename Joseph Sex M FatherForename William MotherForename Susan FatherSurname HORNBY MotherSurname Abode Alford FatherOccupation labourer Notes FileNumber 23220
All the above from http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl Although it doesn't help in this case, the transcribers will note all the info from the register including notations such as P (private baptism). This is normally undertaken in the home if the child/infant is ill and not expected to survive.
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+++DetEcTive+++
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7 Mar 2015 10:28 |
From the same site - do you have this? County Lincolnshire Place Alford Church St Wilfrid RegisterNumber MarriageDate 11 Jan 1809 GroomForename William GroomSurname HORNBY GroomAge GroomParish GroomCondition GroomOccupation GroomAbode BrideForename Susanna BrideSurname HANDSLEY
Preview of all Hornby baptisms for Alford (some are duplicates) 1817 +/-10 There was another Hornby Couple in the parish, Joseph and Martha
Record Type Baptism Date Surname Forename County Place Name 1 Baptisms 24 Apr 1813 HORNBY William Billingham 2 Baptisms 24 Sep 1813 HORNBY Thomas 3 Baptisms 30 Jun 1815 HORNBY William 4 Baptisms 27 Jan 1822 HORNBY Elizabeth 5 Baptisms 14 Feb 1822 HORNBY Joseph 6 Baptisms 18 Apr 1823 HORNBY Elizabeth 7 Baptisms 25 Aug 1826 HORNBY Ann Lincolnshire 8 Baptisms 24 Apr 1813 HORNBY William Billingham 9 Baptisms 24 Sep 1813 HORNBY Thomas 10 Baptisms 30 Jun 1815 HORNBY William 11 Baptisms 03 Mar 1817 HORNBY John 12 Baptisms 27 Jan 1822 HORNBY Elizabeth 13 Baptisms 14 Feb 1822 HORNBY Joseph 14 Baptisms 16 Apr 1823 HORNBY Elizabeth 15 Baptisms 25 Aug 1826 HORNBY Ann 16 Baptisms 05 May 1809 HORNBY Sarah Handsley
One other burial in the same time period County Lincolnshire Place Alford Church St Wilfrid RegisterNumber BurialDate 17 Mar 1810 Forename Sarah Relationship dau of Rel1MaleForename William Rel1FemaleForename Ann Rel1Surname HORNBY Surname HORNBY Age Abode Notes died 26 Mar 1810 father a labourer FileNumber 31538 (something squiffy here! She can't have been buried before she died - probably an unclear image)
As the father is another William, one needs to check if the Elizabeth who was buried could be the child of William and an Ann. An alternative explanation is that Susannah swapped between using Susan and Ann
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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7 Mar 2015 10:43 |
If this is Joseph's burial, then it is suggested he was born in 1821? First name(s) JOSEPH Last name HORNBY Birth year 1821 Death year 1882 Age 61 Burial year 1882 Burial day 8 Burial month 11 Place ALFORD Church description CEMETERY Church denomination CEMETERY County Lincolnshire Country England Record set National Burial Index for England & Wales Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Subcategory Deaths & burials Collections from Great Britain
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Yvonne
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8 Mar 2015 00:13 |
Sorry to have taken so long getting back, been out of town. DetEcTive, where did you find the burial for Elizabeth for January 1821 because everything else that's been found refers to 1822. If she was indeed buried in February1821 and not 1822 then that would explain things but everything I've found says 1822. Thanks.
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Yvonne
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8 Mar 2015 00:20 |
DetEcTive ... just saw the note at the bottom of one of your posts saying the info came from freereg.org. I looked at it and there are two references, one for 1821 and one for 1822. The register numbers are the same for both but the file numbers are different ... do you have any idea what they refer to. Thanks.
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+++DetEcTive+++
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8 Mar 2015 09:42 |
The file numbers are created by the system the transcriber uses - in this case I suggest that that 2 people have transcribed the same set of records at different times.
The instructions to transcribers are to type what you see. Its likely that date is smudged on the image.
I did try to use the Correction link to ask for the the record where Ann was buried before she died to be checked, but it didn't work - it might have been my connection.
You could contact Lincolnshire Archives and ask them to check the image for Elizabeth. if its in the middle of other 1821 burials, then thats most likely when it occured. There is a possibility that they will make a charge, but as they would expect payment before they proceeded you have the option not to.
Previews to many Lincolnshire PR images are available on http://www.lincstothepast.com/home/ I don't 'think' the burials for this period are, but you could double check.
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Yvonne
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8 Mar 2015 17:33 |
I contacted freereg.org for clarification and they got back to me saying they checked the record and the burial is 1822. I think that puts us back to square one, not sure this is one that can be solved.
Thanks.
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