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Charles
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6 Feb 2015 14:49 |
Hello,
I have an ancestor called James McDonald, who married Janet (Jessie) Hay in 1832. He died in 1893. His mother was Mary Ferguson and his father was James McDonald, both dec. James senior was a soldier. I can not find his parents. I did find a James McDonald and Mary Ferguson but they had their son James in Dumbarton. All of James juniors records have his birth as Perth.
Any help in breaking this barrier and maybe find out about James Snr career would be most appreciated.
Thanks
Charlie
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Gee
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6 Feb 2015 15:03 |
Hi
Name:James Macdonald
Gender:Male
Marriage Date:3 Feb 1832
Marriage Place:Perth,Perth,Scotland
Spouse:Janet Hay
FHL Film Number:1040164
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Looks like they son James before they married
Name:James Macdonald
Gender:Male
Birth Date:31 Dec 1831
Baptism Date:20 Feb 1832
Baptism Place:Perth,Perth,Scotland
Father: James Macdonald
Mother: Janet Hay
FHL Film Number:1040162
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malyon
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6 Feb 2015 15:12 |
this must be his sister
me: James Mcdonald Gender: Male Wife: Mary Ferguson Daughter: Elizabeth Mcdonald Other information in the record of Elizabeth Mcdonald from Scotland, Births and Baptisms Name: Elizabeth Mcdonald Gender: Female Christening Date: 14 May 1820 Christening Place: DUMBARTON,DUNBARTON,SCOTLAND Birth Date: 24 Apr 1820 Father's Name: James Mcdonald Mother's Name: Mary Ferguson
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malyon
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6 Feb 2015 15:16 |
James Mcdonald mentioned in the record of Janet Mcdonald Name: James Mcdonald Gender: Male Wife: Mary Ferguson Daughter: Janet Mcdonald Other information in the record of Janet Mcdonald from Scotland, Births and Baptisms Name: Janet Mcdonald Gender: Female Christening Date: 22 Dec 1822 Christening Place: DUMBARTON,DUNBARTON,SCOTLAND Birth Date: 16 Dec 1822 Father's Name: James Mcdonald Mother's Name: Mary Ferguson
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ArgyllGran
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6 Feb 2015 15:24 |
A very long shot at the parents' marriage???
09/07/1813 FERGUSON MARY JAMES DONALD/ F DUMBARTON /DUNBARTON 496/00 0040 0271
Charlie, you mention "all of James Junior's records" - can you tell us exactly which records you have found, please? Where did he die?
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ArgyllGran
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6 Feb 2015 15:32 |
Just for our reference, is this James junior in 1841?
James Mcdonald in the 1841 Scotland Census Name: James Mcdonald Age: 30 Estimated birth year: abt 1811 Gender: Male Where born: Perthshire, Scotland Civil Parish: Tibbermore County: Perthshire Address: Ruthven Field Parish Number: 395 Household Members: Name Age James Mcdonald 30 Janet Mcdonald 25 James Mcdonald 9 Robert Mcdonald 7 Thomas Mcdonald 3 Margaret Mcdonald 1 Source Citation
Parish: Tibbermore; ED: 6; Page: 8; Line: 1120; Year: 1841
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malyon
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6 Feb 2015 15:35 |
James Macdonald Scotland, Births and Baptisms Name: James Macdonald Gender: Male Wife: Janet Hay Son: James Macdonald Other information in the record of James Macdonald from Scotland, Births and Baptisms Name: James Macdonald Gender: Male Christening Date: 20 Feb 1832 Christening Place: PERTH,PERTH,SCOTLAND Birth Date: 31 Dec 1831 Father's Name: James Macdonald Mother's Name: Janet Hay
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ArgyllGran
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6 Feb 2015 15:49 |
If James junior died in 1893, as Charlie says, it wasn't in Perthshire, per SP.
These are the only James M(a)cDonalds who died in Perthshire 1890-98:
1895 MCDONALD JAMES M 82 MUTHILL /PERTH 386/0A 0022 1898 MCDONALD JAMES M 84 CRIEFF /PERTH 342/00 0051
These are the James M(a)cdonalds who died in Scotland in 1893, born 1811 +/-5:
1893 MACDONALD JAMES M 80 NEWINGTON EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/05 1096
1893 MACDONALD JAMES M 85 ROGART /SUTHERLAND 055/00 0003
1893 MCDONALD JAMES M 77 PAISLEY /RENFREW 573/00 1413
1893 MCDONALD JAMES M 77 DUNFERMLINE /FIFE 424/00 0381
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ArgyllGran
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6 Feb 2015 16:00 |
Charlie, where did you find the information that his parents were James Macdonald & Mary Ferguson? I'm assuming you haven't found his birth record, as you don't know his exact year of birth.
His marriage (banns) record on SP doesn't say who his parents were. It says he was a printer, and that Janet's father was Robert Hay, a wright, but nothing about James's origins.
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Charles
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6 Feb 2015 16:19 |
Hi All,
Just got home with kids will answer all later. Thanks for replies.
Regards,
Charlie
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Charles
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6 Feb 2015 21:35 |
Hello All,
There are a number of reasons that I don't think the James born in Dumbarton of James McDonald and Mary Ferguson is mine. He was born in 1818.
My James was married in 1832 and the 1841 ,1851 and 1881 census e,g have him born in 1811 in Perth. The 1861 census has him as born in 1815. 1871 born 1817 BTW Argyllgran, yes the 1841 census is them. they are in Bridgeton, and always birthplace is Perth.
His death was 1893 in Paisley, This is him, wife (Jessie) job (Calico Printer) etc match. It is here that his parents are listed as James McDonald and Mary Ferguson. If he was the 1818 James born in Dumbarton, would he be married at 14 and why does every census have him as being born in Perth. It is this DC that says soldier and this intrigues me.
Ruthen Field and Dumbarton Castle did both have military links, but why does he never say he was born in Dumbarton and could he have got married at 14?.
It is either the wrong James and Mary or misreported for some reason?
Regards,
Charlie
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alviegal
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6 Feb 2015 21:59 |
So this is the 1851. These are for our benefit as I know you have them.
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 176, Dalmarnock Road, Calton, Bridgeton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Learn more Print transcription Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place James McDonald Head Married Male 40 1811 Block Printer Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Jane McDonald Wife Married Female 39 1812 - Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription James McDonald Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Ag Lab Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Robert McDonald Son Unmarried Male 16 1835 Ag Lab Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Thomas McDonald Son - Male 13 1838 Scholar Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Margaret McDonald Daughter - Female 10 1841 Scholar Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Edwart McDonald Son - Male 8 1843 - Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Jane McDonald Daughter - Female 6 1845 - Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Janet McDonald Daughter - Female 4 1847 - Renfrewshire, Scotland Transcription Ann McDonald Daughter - Female 0 1851 - Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Dale Street, Calton, Bridgeton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Learn more Print transcription Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place James McDonald Head Married Male 46 1815 Calico Printer (Joury) Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Janet McDonald Wife Married Female 45 1816 - Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Thomas McDonald Son Unmarried Male 22 1839 Ir Gasfitter Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Margaret McDonald Daughter - Female 20 1841 Warehouse Girl Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Edward McDonald Son - Male 18 1843 Ap Press Printer Renfrewshire, Scotland Transcription Jane McDonald Daughter - Female 15 1846 Factory Worker Renfrewshire, Scotland Transcription Jessie McDonald Daughter - Female 13 1848 Servant Domestic Renfrewshire, Scotland Transcription Ann McDonald Daughter - Female 11 1850 Scholar Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland Transcription Elizabeth McDonald Daughter - Female 11 1850 Scholar Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 96, Dale Street, Barony, Bridgeton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Learn more Print transcription Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place James McDonald Head Married Male 70 1811 Block Printer Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Jessie McDonald Wife Married Female 69 1812 - Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Maggie McDonald Granddaughter - Female 13 1868 - Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
or
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 180, Dale Street, Barony, Bridgeton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Learn more Print transcription Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place James McDonald Head Married Male 70 1811 Block Printer Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Jessie McDonald Wife Married Female 69 1812 - Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Maggie McDonald Granddaughter - Female 13 1868 - Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
The addresses are slightly different.
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alviegal
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6 Feb 2015 22:11 |
This 1871 is the same address as one of the 1881s. There is a discrepency with ages and Jessie's name so not clear if it's the same family.
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 96, Dale Street, Bridgeton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Learn more Print transcription Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place James McDonald Head Married Male 54 1817 Block Printer St John's, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Agnes McDonald Wife Married Female 53 1818 Midwife St John's, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Ann McDonald Daughter Unmarried Female 18 1853 Power Loom Weaver - Transcription Elizabeth McDonald Daughter Unmarried Female 16 1855 House Keeper - Transcription Jeanna Howat Boarder Unmarried Female 7 1864 Scholar -
Perth used to be called St John's Toun.
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alviegal
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6 Feb 2015 22:21 |
I don't think that the birth in Dumbarton is your James. Both James McDonald and Mary Ferguson are common names so possibly they are a completely different couple. Because James was born c 1814 there may be no record of his baptism.
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Charles
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7 Feb 2015 15:39 |
Thanks alviegal, Thanks for confirming what I thought that it can't be them. Why can't I find any other marriages of James McDonald and Mary Ferguson?
BTW that 1871 census is odd. It is the only mention of a midwife. However on James and Jessie's wedding certificate they are down as east and middle church and from memory this is St John's
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Charles
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7 Feb 2015 16:05 |
I have found an 1812 Perth record on Scotlands People with James McDonald. If you search with Mary or Ferguson you get one return. On view it says spouse name Christian/Ferguson, so I need to decide if I want to use 5 credits to view
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ArgyllGran
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7 Feb 2015 18:09 |
Unfortunately, as you know, the image of an OPR of marriage or banns won't tell you anything much more than the transcription does.
14/06/1812 MCDONALD JAMES CHRISTIAN FERGUSON/ M KILLIN /PERTH 361/00 0010 0334
It might possibly give the fathers' names, but you still wouldn't know if it was your James MacDonald or not. Probably not worth the credits.
Also, making it less likely that it's the right couple (although not impossible) are the facts that the wife is Christian, not Mary, and the marriage is in Killin, not Perth.
As records are not complete from that time, you may just have to accept that there are no records to find. As SP says, "The parish minister or the session clerk usually assumed responsibility for maintaining the registers, but since there was no standard format employed, record keeping varied enormously from parish to parish and also from year to year. As a result, the information may be sparse, unreliable and difficult to read. The oldest register dates from 1553 (baptisms and banns from Errol, Perthshire), but although there was a requirement from 1552 that parishes record baptisms and marriages, many did not commence until much later, and some more remote areas only have registers from the early 19th century. Some registers have been lost or destroyed and the condition of the surviving 3500 is variable. The National Records of Scotland holds the surviving original registers.
Registration in Church of Scotland's registers was costly and unpopular, so many people did not bother to register events at all."
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alviegal
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7 Feb 2015 20:13 |
This is the 1891 to round off the records.
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Dunchattan Street, Barony, Dennistoun, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Learn more Print transcription Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place James McDonald Head Married Male 59 1832 Rivetter Perth, Perthshire, Scotland Transcription Jeanie M McDonald Wife Married Female 54 1837 - Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland Transcription Maggie McDonald Daughter Unmarried Female 23 1868 Resturant Servant Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland Transcription >>James McDonald Father Widower Male 79 1812 Ret Calico Printer Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
There is a tree on ancestry with this but there is nothing to back any of this up.
PARENTS
james mcdonald 1794 –
mary ferguson
james mcdonald Birth 17/5/1814 in Dumbarton shire, Scotland, United Kingdom Death 30 november 1893 in 27 canel streel paisley scotland
SPOUSE AND CHILDREN
janet hay 1811 – 1890
james mcdonald 1833 –
robert hay mcdonald 1834 – 1925
thomas mcdonald 1838 –
edward mcdonald 1843 –
jane mcdonald 1846 –
elizabeth mcdonald 1849 –
margaret mcdonald 1849 –
anne mcdonald 1850 –
jessie mcdonald 1850 –
elizabeth hamilton mcdonald 1854 –
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