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I am looking for information on Charles Mcguinness born hebburn durham in 1897 to mary ann and joseph mcguinness I found him on the 1901 census aged 4 at home but then in 1911 I found him aged 14 on the census but listed as a inmate in Northumberland and I looked as the original document and its blank it doesn't have a lot of information on and I was wondering if someone might be able to tell me what it is and why he was there and what happened to him afterwards, as I cant find him any information would be welcome and helpful to continue my search

He was in the workhouse in 1911

Right if thats the case why would he be there when he has a family seems odd since he is 14 years old and he is there with other lads aged 14-18 I thought it could of being a borstal or something just hard to find out

perhaps he run away from home or the family put him out

he is in the 'Netherton Training School'

(see page 27 of 51 at Ancestry, Charles is on page 33)

it is in the same book as the workhouse and the Cottage Homes for children up to 13, it seems

the 'classes of inmates' are

Boys for Reformatory Training, or Reformatory Boys

(see page 31 where it also describes the cottages, plus schoolroom, hospital, gymnasium and workshop)

so yes, it seems he was a lad in need of reform :-)


note that the way Ancestry shows the 'household' on his transcribed record is all wrong ... the list on his page is the adults in the workhouse, which is the first 'household' in the census book ... then comes the Cottage Homes, and then the Training School where Charles is

If you look to the begining of the 1911 records the person running the place where he is, is noted as:-

Occupation:- Superintendant f Training School
Industry or Service with which worker is connected :- Certified Reformatory

......................so looks as though it is a type of Borstal

there's probably a very good chance he was in the military in WWI

there is a medal card for a Charles McGuinness a private in the Durham Light Infantry but no service record to match seems to have survived

there is no death listed at CWGC that would match him

however in the British Army WWI Pension Records there is a record for the same name and regimental number 37671

giving the address 23 Prince Consort Rd ... Hebburn on Tyne!

so that looks like him ??

yay, yes, that is the family's address in 1911

Name: Joseph Mc Guinness
Age in 1911: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: South Shields, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Hebburn
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
>> Street address: 23 Prince Consort Road Hebburn On Tyne

he enrolled on 9.8.16 and served in France and Germany, and suffered from the effects of Gas, 1917

he was in hospital that may say "Etaps" ... Etaples France where my great-uncle is buried I think ...


do you have access to those records? there are several pages mainly about his medical condition (less than 20% disability) and also offences for which he was detained, and several pages it would be near impossible to read

Oh wow thank you for all that information to sort through so answer you at the moment no i sont have access to them records. Also you say look through the census book when i just pit his information in it just takes me to his section am not sure how to get the orher pages in it

If you are at Ancestry (the only one I know how to use), when you click to 'view image' it takes you to his page, which is page 33 in the set

then you use the back-page arrow at the bottom to go back through the pages until you get to page 31 for the description of the institution facilities and a page or two back where it identifies it

if you are using this site or findmypast for example I have no idea how the images work :-)

if you are at Ancestry you have access to the military images

this is the Ancestry record

Name: Charles McGuinness
Gender: Male
Document Year: 1919
Regimental Number: 37671
Regiment Name: Durham Light Infantry
Form Title: Cover for Discharge Documents
Number of Images: 14

you should be able to see them here if you have a subscription

http://tinyurl.com/kktgfuk

that is a shortened link that takes you to the first page of his pension records, if you have a subscription

if you don't I'd be willing to spend some time saving the images and sending them to you, but tomorrow

I can send them through the private message system here, just let me know if you need them

Rats, I get a message from Ancestry that I can't save the images after the first page of the pension record because they haven't been indexed, and nothing I do seems to work

I'm sending you page 1, the only one that worked, which shows the address in Hebburn

received your PM Pamela, you are very welcome

If I can figure out some way to save the rest of the images I will give it a try

I might be able to take screenshots ... but at the moment I have crashed my flash from all this so I am going to be Scarlett O'Hara and think about it tomorrow!

and maybe just leave you to check it all out when you get that subscription :-)