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ArgyllGran
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1 Jan 2015 12:51 |
Happy New Year to all of you!
I'm trying to find out the maiden name of Sarah Ann Stanley. I think it's Coy, but would be grateful if you could see if I'm right or not. And also if you think I've found the right record for her first marriage.
Her second husband, James Horace Stanley is in my tree, and I have all the details about him, his parents, siblings, etc, thanks.
Her first husband, John Power(s) seems to change his name, so I'm not 100% sure I've got the right marriage for John and Sarah, and therefore not sure of her maiden name.
Working backwards:
Here are James and Sarah in 1911, with Sarah's children from her first marriage:
1911 England Census about James Horace Stanley Name: James Horace Stanley Age in 1911: 47 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: Drayton, Oxfordshire, England Civil Parish: Smethwick County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Street address: 78 Unett St Smethwick Marital Status: Married Occupation: Brewers Labourer Registration district: Kings Norton Registration District Number: 383 Sub-registration district: Smethwick ED, institution, or vessel: 44 Piece: 17986 Household Members: Name Age James Horace Stanley 47 Sarah Ann Stanley 53 - born c1858, Amcotts, Lincs. John James Power 21 - born c1890, Warwick Hariett Jane Power 20 - born c1891, Warwick Edward Job Power 18 - born c1893, Smethwick, Staffs. Alice Power 16 - born c1895, Smethwick
James & Sarah's marriage: Marriages Jun 1909 (>99%) POWER Sarah Ann King's N. 6c 815 STANLEY James Horace King's N. 6c 815
Here's Sarah with her first husband and children in 1901:
1901 England Census about Sarah A Power Name: Sarah A Power Age: 46 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 Relation to Head: Wife Gender: Female Spouse: John Power Birth Place: Amcotts, Lincolnshire, England Civil Parish: Smethwick Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Registration district: Kings Norton Sub-registration district: Harborne ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2820 Folio: 96 Page Number: 15 Household schedule number: 86 Household Members: Name Age John Power 43 - born Leamington, Warwickshire Sarah A Power 46 John Power 11 Harriett Power 10 Edward Power 8 Alice Power 5
In 1891, her husband has the middle name Smith:
1891 England Census about John Smith Powers Name: John Smith Powers Age: 33 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Ann Powers Gender: Male Where born: Lamington Civil Parish: St Nicholas Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Town: Warwick County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Registration district: Warwick Sub registration district: Warwick ED, institution, or vessel: 27 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2469 Folio: 65 Page Number: 23 Household Members: Name Age John Smith Powers 33 Sarah Ann Powers 33 Kate Helena Powers 6 - born Bradford, Yorks. Annie E Powers 3 - born Amcotts, Lincs John I Powers 1 Harriett Powers 1 12
This is probably his birth: Births Dec 1856 (>99%) Power John Warwick 6d 435
One of these is his death: Deaths Mar 1908 (>99%) POWER John Smith 50 King's N 6c 337 POWER John Smith 50 King's N 6c 338
I can't see John in 1881, but this will be him in 1871, as two of his children were later named after his parents. He does have the middle initial S here:
1871 England Census about John A Power Name: John A Power [John S Power] Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857 Relation: Son Father's Name: Job Power Mother's name: Harriett Power Gender: Male Where born: Leamington, Warwickshire, England Civil Parish: Leamington Town: Leamington County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Registration district: Warwick Sub-registration district: Leamington ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Household schedule number: 208 Piece: 3193 Folio: 141 Page Number: 38 Household Members: Name Age Job Power 37 Harriett Power 37 Eliza Power 16 John A Power 14 Susan A Power 12 Sarah A Power 10 William Power 8 Mary Power 6 Kate Power 3 Elizabeth Boyes 82 - lodger Thomas Harrisson 21 - lodger
I'm assuming this is Sarah Ann in 1871, going by YOB and POB in later censuses:
1871 England Census about Sarah Ann Coy Name: Sarah Ann Coy Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: James Coy Mother's name: Mary Ann Coy Gender: Female Where born: Amcotts, Lincolnshire, England Civil Parish: Amcotts Town: Amcotts County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Thorne Sub-registration district: Crowle ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Household schedule number: 3 Piece: 4728 Folio: 97 Page Number: 1 Household Members: Name Age James Coy 39 Mary Ann Coy 34 Sarah Ann Coy 13 William Coy 11 Jane Elizabeth Coy 9 Tom John Coy 7 Frederick Coy 4 Alice Coy 1
BUT this one is also a possibility:
1871 England Census about Sarah Ann Coy Name: Sarah Ann Coy Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Lincolnshire, England Civil Parish: Chapel Allerton County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Leeds Sub-registration district: Chapeltown ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Household schedule number: 103 Piece: 4575 Folio: 14 Page Number: 21 Household Members: Name Age Mary Vickers 66 Charles Vickers 34 Ann Vickers 31 Ellen Vickers 9 Henry Vickers 5 Ada Vickers 1 Thomas Parker 35 Sarah Ann Coy 14
HOWEVER, the only likely marriage I can find in the Lincs / Yorks area in the right time frame is this one:
Marriages Jun 1884 (>99%) Bradley John Power York 9d 99 Coy Sarah Ann York 9d 99
So , do you think this is John calling himself Bradley for some reason, or have I got the wrong marriage, and possibly the wrong Sarah Ann?
I know the only sure way is to buy the marriage cert, to see fathers' names, but I'd be grateful for your thoughts first.
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ArgyllGran
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1 Jan 2015 13:08 |
I've just noticed - there's a tree on Ancestry which says John Smith Power married Sarah Ann Coy, but it only gives censuses as sources.
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MarieCeleste
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1 Jan 2015 13:32 |
I suppose you could check who John Smith Power married?
England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 Name: Harriet Jane Power Gender: Female Baptism Date: 7 Jun 1891 Baptism Place: All Saints, Warwick, Warwick, England Father: John Smith Power <<< Mother: Sarah Ann FHL Film Number: 1067554
EDIT: Oops - just noticed what was buried in the long post above!
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AnnCardiff
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1 Jan 2015 13:38 |
Name: Sarah Ann Coy Gender: Female Christening Date: 03 Jan 1858 Christening Place: AMCOTTS,LINCOLN,ENGLAND Father's Name: James Coy Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C10984-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 952342
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Mel Fairy Godmother
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1 Jan 2015 13:51 |
It all looks right to me. The first Sarah Ann Coy born Amcotts, Lincolnshire with parents James and Mary Ann looks like the right one for the 1871 census.
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ArgyllGran
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1 Jan 2015 13:55 |
Thanks, MC - but re marriages:
Between 1875 and 1885, FreeBMD doesn't show any marriages anywhere for a John S (or Smith) Power(s) to a Sarah.
There are a few between John Power(s) and a Sarah, but none in likely places.
There are two between John Power and Sarah Ann, but in Chorlton and London.
None between John Powers and Sarah Ann.
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ArgyllGran
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1 Jan 2015 13:58 |
Thanks, Mel.
I wish I knew why John called himself Bradley when they married! Just one of those things I'll never know!
Also thanks to you, Ann, for Sarah's christening.
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Chris Ho :)
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1 Jan 2015 20:02 |
Births Mar 1885 (>99%) ------------------------------------------------------ Bradley Kate Selena Bradford 9b 236
(above as below FMP)
BRADLEY KATE HELENA 1885 England & Wales births 1837-2006 Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Yorkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1885 BRADLEY Kate H Idle Bradford IDLE/55/82
http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/
(if fitting anywhere!)
Chris :)
West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1909 STANLEY James H POWER Sarah A Smethwick, St Matthew Sandwell Register Office 5/5/229
http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/
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ArgyllGran
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1 Jan 2015 22:24 |
Well now, Kate's birth is very interesting, Chris. No wonder I couldn't find her under Power(s).
It does help to confirm that it's the right marriage.
John and Sarah must have continued to call themselves Bradley for a year or two after marriage, but had reverted to Power(s) before 1891.
ADDED: So this is likely to be Annie E's birth, as Amcotts is in the Thorne reg district:
Births Mar 1888 (>99%) Bradley Annie Eliza Thorne 9c 731
But John James is registered as Power, so the change back to Power(s) happened 1888-89:
Births Jun 1889 (>99%) Power John James Warwick 6d 604
Perhaps the change coincided with their move back to John's home county of Warwickshire.
Both Sarah's husbands were brewery workers. As she married James just over a year after John's death, perhaps the men worked together, and she already knew James Stanley before John's death.
MORE ADDED: Yes, have checked the 1901 census. The Powers were living at 75 Reynold Street, and James Stanley was living with his brother and sister-in-law at 27 Reynold Street.
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mgnv
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2 Jan 2015 19:53 |
Looking at ArgyllGran's 1871 for John, this would seem to be his parents' marr:
Marriages Dec 1852 (>99%) Lea William Warwick 6d 733 POWER Job Warwick 6d 733 SMITH Harriette Warwick 6d 733 Warner Catharine Warwick 6d 733
A lookup in the local index gets: Surname: POWER Forename: Job Middle Initial: Year of Marriage: 1852 Reference: 775/WS/C61/3/395/1 District: WARWICK (the Registration District in which the marriage took place) Spouses Surname(s): SMITH http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/copycertificates
so Job did wed Harriette, and the C61 in the local ref is probably a code for some local C of E church - there's no key that identifies the church codes on the site that I can see.
Deaths Jun 1890 (>99%) Power Job 56 Warwick 6d 319
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ArgyllGran
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2 Jan 2015 21:31 |
Thanks, mgnv. I had checked that out earlier in the hope that Bradley was perhaps Harriet's ms, but no such luck!
Incidentally, just for the record, the birth I posted for John in my OP isn't his. Here's his christening. An associated birth doesn't appear to be on FreeBMD (Unless I had the right birth, but he wasn't baptised until he was 2.):
John Smith Powers England Births and Christenings Name: John Smith Powers Gender: Male Christening Date: 03 Oct 1858 Christening Place: SAINT MARY,LEAMINGTON PRIORS,WARWICK,ENGLAND Father's Name: Job Powers Mother's Name: Harriet Indexing Project (Batch) Number: J15352-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 1067485
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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3 Jan 2015 07:46 |
The image of the marriage certificate is on Ancestry Warwickshire mariages...do you have access? If not let me know and I'll pm it
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mgnv
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3 Jan 2015 09:06 |
Marriages Jun 1856 (>99%) COOKE Dinah Thorne 9c 553 COY James Thorne 9c 553 Neal Mary Ann Thorne 9c 553
Again the local index confirms what we expect: Surname Forename First initial Second initial Maiden name BookNumber EntryNumber COY James C 3.1 39 NEAL Mary A C 3.1 39 http://www.northlincs.gov.uk/community-advice-and-support/births-deaths-and-marriages/family-history/how-to-apply-for-birth-marriage-or-death-certificates/
[Again, there's no key identifying which CofE church is coded by C3]
Births Mar 1858 (>99%) Coy Sarah Ann Thorne 9c 491
Now, there's no hit in the 1858 local index, but for 1857 we get: Full name Sarah A COY Register number * CR/6 Entry number * 283 so I presume N Lincs, like several local indexes, index by year of birth, not year of registration, so Sarah Ann was prob'ly b Dec 1857. N Lincs don't decode the subdistrict code, but looking at the 1871 census, it's easy to guess CR = Crowle.
Incidentally, EPW codes for Epworth at the NLincs site, and THORNE codes for Thorne (these last rego's are held at Doncaster, and indexed on the YorksBMD site), these being the other subdistricts in Thorne RD.
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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3 Jan 2015 09:48 |
This is just a gut feeling
2 years before the Bradley/Coy marriage there is another Bradley/Coy marriage in the same area
Marriages Dec 1882 (>99%) Bradley John Rose York 9d 117 Scan available - click to view Coy Annie York 9d 117 Scan available - click to view Goldsbrough William York 9d 117 Scan available - click to view Oliver Mary York 9d 117 Scan available - click to view
Did a google and it seems that John Rose Bradley was around 72 whilst Annie was only 20.
Their son was born about 6 months after the marriage, Annie died shortly after the birth and John died shortly after.
Maybe a red herring but it could be worth a look
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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3 Jan 2015 10:49 |
Hm seems Annie Coy's mother was Jane Coy who was James Coy's sister
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ArgyllGran
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3 Jan 2015 11:43 |
You've all been working hard - many thanks!
Hmm - so Annie Coy was Sarah Ann Coy's aunt. Interesting about the Bradley name - not sure what significance it has. Feels as if there should be some link, but maybe it's just coincidence.
Thanks, Jude, I've seen the marriage cert image.
Have to go out, but will mull all this over later.
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ArgyllGran
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3 Jan 2015 18:22 |
Just pottering through the records in case anything useful comes to light. Thinking aloud, really.
John Rose Bradley's birth:
John Rose Bradley England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 birth: 2 March 1809 christening: 9 April 1809 CATHEDRAL SAINT PETER,SHEFFIELD,YORK,ENGLAND father: Thomas Bradley mother: Elizabeth
John Rose Bradley was married to a previous Ann in all the censuses 1851 - 1881. I assume this is his first wife Ann's death, although the age doesn't quite match her age in censuses: Deaths Jun 1881 (>99%) BRADLEY Ann 71 Ecclesall B. 9c 188
1881 England Census about John Rose Bradley Name: John Rose Bradley Age: 72 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809 Relationship to Head: Head Spouse: Ann Bradley Gender: Male Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Nether Hallam County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address: 101 School Rd Marital Status: Married Occupation: Retired Pocket Knife Horn Scale Presser Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow Sub registration district: Nether Hallam ED, institution, or vessel: 30 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4626 Folio: 107 Page Number: 9 Household Members: Name Age John Rose Bradley 72 Ann Bradley 76
They married in 1847: Marriages Jun 1847 (>99%) BRADLEY John Rose Sheffield 22 469 MACHON Ann Sheffield 22 469
However, in 1851 there are teenage sons listed, who would have been born about 1836 and 1840, so either Ann or John must have been married before:
1851 England Census about John Rose Bradley Name: John Rose Bradley Age: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Ann Bradley Gender: Male Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Nether Hallam Ecclesiastical parish: Crookes County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address: Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow Sub-registration district: Nether Hallam ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 71 Piece: 2336 Folio: 206 Page Number: 18 Household Members: Name Age John Rose Bradley 48 Ann Bradley 46 John Bradley 15 William H Bradley 11
This could be him below in 1841, with the children and his mother. His occupation is "presser", which could fit with his occupation in 1881 above; 1851 (horn scale presser); 1861 ( Fancy scale presser); 1871 (horn scale presser):
1841 England Census about John Bradley Name: John Bradley Age: 28 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813 Gender: Male Where born: Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Sheffield Hundred: Strafforth and Tickhill (South Division) County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Sheffield Sub-registration district: Sheffield North Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1335 Book: 8 Folio: 15 Page Number: 22 Household Members: Name Age John Bradley 28 Elizth Bradley 70 William Bradley 2 John Bradley 5
Births of son John and a daughter, Lydia. Mother Lydia::
Name: John Bradley Gender: Male Christening Date: 06 Feb 1836 Christening Place: LEE CROFT INDEPENDENT,SHEFFIELD,YORK,ENGLAND Birth Date: 07 Jan 1836 Father's Name: John Rose Bradley Mother's Name: Lydia Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C08526-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 0828156 (RG4 2083-4), 0828156 (RG4 2756)
Name: Lydia Clayton Bradley Gender: Female Christening Date: 22 Jul 1834 Christening Place: LEE CROFT INDEPENDENT,SHEFFIELD,YORK,ENGLAND Birth Date: 19 Jul 1834 Father's Name: John Rose Bradley Mother's Name: Lydia Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C08526-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 0828156 (RG4 2083-4), 0828156 (RG4 2756)
Death of John Rose's wife Lydia??
Lydia Bradley England and Wales, Death Registration Index 1837-2007 Name: Lydia Bradley Event Type: Death Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar Registration Year: 1841 Registration District: Sheffield County: Yorkshire Event Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Volume: 22 Page: 443 Line Number: 33
And possibly the death of daughter Lydia??
Lydia Bradley England and Wales, Death Registration Index 1837-2007 Name: Lydia Bradley Event Type: Death Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar Registration Year: 1838 Registration District: Ecclesall Bierlow County: Yorkshire Event Place: Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire, England Volume: 22 Page: 75 Line Number: 8
Well, all very interesting, but no clue as to why John Smith Power called himself John Power Bradley!
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°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o°
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3 Jan 2015 20:53 |
I wonder if John Rose Bradley had some sort of business that John Smith Powers took over or perhaps he went to live in John Bradley's house.
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ArgyllGran
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4 Jan 2015 13:11 |
Good thought, Claire.
Because of the link between John Rose's wife Annie, and John Power's wife Sarah, it would certainly seem that JP added Bradley to his name for some reason connected to JR - too much of a coincidence otherwise.
Possibly not a business reason - JR was a pen-knife maker/horn presser, and JP (at least from 1891 onwards) was a brewer's drayman. He might, of course, have had to find a new occupation when JR died.
In the 1827 Sheffield Directory, John Rose Bradley, at 9 Carver Street; is listed as "horn, bone, hoof, tip, buck, stag, and foreign wood dealer and presser". (Page 106 in this link: http://tinyurl.com/kdq3svd )
On page 8 in this link, he's listed as bankrupt, 6th April 1838. http://tinyurl.com/lfarhtf
Still can't find JP in 1881, which might give a clue.
But we'll never know!
Many thanks again to all who have helped with this puzzle.
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