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Rachel
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7 Dec 2014 03:15 |
Edward Wiseman 1845 – 1917 (born Wormley Hertfordshire) (Disappeared for the 1871 and 1881 Censuses) – according to 1911 Census was married for 40 Years and had 16 children
Louisa Worley Pile (Mason) 1850 -1930 (Born Maidstone) Born before her mother married Edward Mason – Census 1871 shows the surname Pile (Pill – transcription Error) (In the Marriage Banns it gives Edward Masons Surname as Pile Children as Follows Horace Edward Wiseman?1873 – 1960?? ?Thomas William Wiseman?1874 – ?? ?Ellen Harriet Wiseman?1877 – ?? ?Mary Ann Wiseman?1879 – ?? ?James Wiseman?1881 – ?? ?Arthur Wiseman?1882 – ?? ?Daisy Wiseman?1884 – 1975?? ?Alice Worley Wiseman?1887 – 1969?? ?Jessie Mabel Wiseman?1888 – ?? ?Albert Sidney Wiseman?1890 – 1918?? ?Louisa Wiseman?1892 – 1974?? ?Charles A Wiseman?1895 – 1898?? ?Blanche Wiseman?1898 – ?? ?Arthur Wiseman?1902 – ?? ?Nellie Wiseman?1905 – ?? Ivy Wiseman?1909 – Which is 16 Children and in 1911 only 10 were listed as surviving. Some of these children are listed as Louisa’s but with other Siblings as the father??? Does anybody have any further information to help me untangle this web
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2014 03:56 |
welcome to the Boards, Rachel
Firstly, it is most unlikely that anyone with knowledge of this family will see your post .................. we have estimated in the past that only about 1% of the membership even know about the Boards.
The way this site works if that you need to Search member Trees yourself, by inputting various names from your family, and seeing if they occur in any member trees on here. Then you contact that member(s)
To do this, look up to the right of your screen, and you will see a tab Search
Click on that, then click on Search All Member Trees.
Secondly, the best thing about these Boards, and this site, is the help given by other members who do their very best to help others by using their knowledge and expertise to search for information on other sites to which we subscribe, or know about.
and that is what I am about to do!!
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2014 04:00 |
so Edward Wiseman married Louisa Pile in 1872 .....
from freebmd.org.uk ................
Marriages Sep 1872 (>99%)
Pile Louisa Woolwich 1d 1331 Wiseman Edward Woolwich 1d 1331
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2014 04:14 |
for our help and information ............ I know that you have this information!
from ancestry
Edward in 1891 ................
1891 Census
Name: Edward Wiseman Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Louisa Wiseman Gender: Male Where born: Wamley, Hertfordshire, England Civil Parish: Streatham Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel Town: Streatham County/Island: London Country: England
Registration district: Wandsworth Sub registration district: Streatham ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Piece: 457 Folio: 135 Page Number: 60
Edward Wiseman 45 General Labourer Louisa Wiseman 40 b.ca 1841, Maidstone, Kent James Wiseman 10 b.ca 1881, Maidstone Mary A Wiseman 12 b.ca 1879, Maidstone Daisy Wiseman 7 Alice Wiseman 4 Jessy Wiseman 3 Albert Wiseman 1 Thomas Wiseman 54 b.ca 1837, Wormley, Brother, General Labourer Rebecca Read 57 Lodger
Address:- 42 Beasley (?sp) Street, Streatham, London
and in 1851 ................
1851 Census
Name: Edward Wiseman Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Relation: Son Father's Name: Thomas Wiseman Mother's name: Ann Wiseman Gender: Male Where born: Wormley, Hertfordshire, England Civil Parish: Wormley Ecclesiastical parish: Wormley Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps: View related Ecclesiastical Parish County/Island: Hertfordshire Country: England
Registration district: Ware Sub-registration district: Hoddesdon ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 6 Piece: 1705 Folio: 5 Page Number: 3
Thomas Wiseman 35 b.ca 1816, Wormley, Road Lab Ann Wiseman 33 b.ca 1818, Hoddesdon, Hertfordshire Harriett Wiseman 9 b.ca 1842, Hoddesdon William Wiseman 8 b.ca 1843, Hoddesdon Edward Wiseman 4 Henry Wiseman 1 b.ca 1850, Wormsley
Address:- Wormsley Village
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2014 04:19 |
?????????
from ancestry
England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Edward Wiseman
Name: Edward Wiseman Gender: Male Baptism Date: 20 Sep 1844 Baptism Place: Wormley,Hertford,England Father: Thomas Wiseman Mother: Ann FHL Film Number: 991328
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Edward Wisemán
Name: Edward Wisemán Spouse: Louisa Pile Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 31 Aug 1872 Parish: St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich Borough: Greenwich Father Name: Thomas Wiseman Spouse Father: Edward Pile Register Type: Parish Register
from image:-
Edward Of Age Bachelor Occupation:- Driver, Royal Horse Artillery Address:- Barracks Father Occupation:- Gardener
Louisa Of Age Spinster no occupation shown Address:- Shooters Hill Father occupation:- Bricklayer
Witnesses:- Henry Jordan and Esther Jenkins (??)
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2014 04:27 |
1911 Census
Name Age Edward Wiseman 64 Louisa Wiseman 60 b.ca 1851, Kent Arthur Wiseman 29 b.ca 1882, Kent Jessie Wiseman 23 b.ca 1888, Streatham Albert Wiseman 21 b.ca 1890, Streatham Blanche Wiseman 13 b.ca 1898, Streatham Arthur Wiseman 9 b.ca 1902, Streatham, Son Nellie Wiseman 6 b.ca 1905, Streatham, Daughter Ivy Wiseman 2 b.ca 1909, Streatham, Daughter
Note that the 1911 census asks how many children the WIFE had borne .............. not how many children were born to the marriage
I must say, I know it is not impossible, but I do find it rather amazing that a woman gave birth to 3 children after the age of 50 :-D
1901 Census
Name Age Edward Wiseman 54 Louisa Wiseman 51 Mary Wiseman 22 b.ca 1879, Streatham Daisy Wiseman 19 b.ca 1882, Streatham Jessie Wiseman 12 Albert Wiseman 11 Louisa Wiseman 8 Blanche Wiseman 3
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2014 04:39 |
Here is Louisa in 1881, minus Edward ...................
1881 Census
Name: Louisa Wiseman Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relationship to Head: Wife (Head) (Head) Gender: Female Where born: Maidstone, Kent, England Civil Parish: Maidstone County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: St Peter St No 2 In Passage Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Charwoman Wife Of A Genl Labr Registration district: Maidstone Sub registration district: West Maidstone ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Piece: 928 Folio: 31 Page Number: 18
Louisa Wiseman 30 Thomas Wiseman 7 b.ca 1874, Farnham, Surrey Ellen Wiseman 4 b.ca 1877, Streatham, Surrey Mary Ann Wiseman 2 b.ca 1879, Maidstone Arthur Wiseman 8 mos b.ca 1880, Maidstone
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2014 04:52 |
England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Louisa Worley Pile
Name: Louisa Worley Pile Gender: Female Baptism Date: 29 Dec 1850 Baptism Place: Maidstone, Kent, England Mother: Ann Pile FHL Film Number: 1835450 Reference ID: item 1 p 251
and the 1871 Census
1871 Census
Name: Louisa Pill [Louisa Mason] Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Edward Mason Mother's name: Ann Mason Gender: Female Where born: Maidstone, Kent, England Civil Parish: Maidstone Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity County/Island: Kent Country: England Registration district: Maidstone Sub-registration district: East Maidstone ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household schedule number: 47 Piece: 944 Folio: 29 Page Number: 9
Edward Mason 43 Ann Mason 46 Louisa Pill 20 Sarah A Mason 12 Ellen H Mason 10 Mary Jane Mason 6 Horace H Mason 3
Marriages Sep 1857 (>99%)
Mason Edward Maidstone 2a 680 Scan available - click to view Pile Ann Maidstone 2a 680 Pill Ann Maidstone 2a 680
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2014 05:19 |
from ancestry ..............
England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Mary Ann Wiseman Gender: Female Baptism Date: 4 May 1879 Baptism Place: St. Peter's, Maidstone, Kent, England Father: Edward Wiseman Mother: Louisa FHL Film Number: 1835481 Reference ID: item 4 p 176
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Ellen Harriet Wiseman Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 4 Feb 1877 Father's Name: Edward Wiseman Mother's name: Louisa Worley Wiseman Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham St Leonard Borough: Lambeth Register Type: Parish Registers
from image:- Born:- 9 December 1876 Father occupation:- Gardener Address:- Streatham
Name: Louisa Florence Wiseman Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 30 Apr 1882 Father's Name: Edward Wiseman Mother's name: Louisa Wiseman Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham Common Immanuel Borough: Lambeth Register Type: Parish Registers
from image:- Father occupation:- Labourer Address:- Lower Streatham
Name: Daisy Moore Wiseman Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 30 Dec 1883 Father's Name: Edward Frederic Wiseman Mother's name: Louisa Worley Wiseman Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham Common Immanuel Borough: Lambeth Register Type: Parish Registers
from image:- Father:- Labourer Address:- Lower Streatham
Name: George James Wiseman Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 22 Feb 1885 Father's Name: Edward Frederick Wiseman Mother's name: Louisa Worley Wiseman Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham Common Immanuel Borough: Lambeth Register Type: Parish Registers
Father occupation:- Labourer Address:- 14 Cromwell Terrace, S Streatham
Name: Alice Warley Wiseman Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 30 Jan 1887 Father's Name: Edward Wiseman Mother's name: Louisa Warley Wiseman Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham Common Immanuel Borough: Lambeth Register Type: Parish Registers
Father occupation:- Labourer Address:- 14 Cromwell Terrace
Name: Jesse Mabel Wiseman Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 29 Jul 1888 Father's Name: Horace Edward Wiseman <<<< ???? Mother's name: Louisa Warley Wiseman Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham Common Immanuel Borough: Lambeth Register Type: Parish Registers
Father occupation:- Labourer Address:- South Streatham
Name: Albert Sidney Wiseman Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 30 Mar 1890 Father's Name: Edward Frederick Wiseman Mother's name: Louisa Worley Wiseman Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham Common Immanuel Borough: Lambeth Register Type: Parish Registers
Father:- Labourer Address:- Ferrers Road, Streatham
Name: Louisa Blanche Wireman [Louisa Blanche Wiseman] Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 30 Oct 1892 Father's Name: Edward Frederick Wireman Mother's name: Louisa Worley Wireman Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham Common Immanuel Borough: Lambeth Register Type: Parish Registers
Father occupation:- Labourer Address:- 42 Basley (??) St
Name: Charles Alexander Wiseman Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 2 Mar 1895 Father's Name: Edward Frederick Wiseman Mother's name: Louisa Worley Wiseman Parish or Poor Law Union: Streatham Common Immanuel Borough: Lambeth Register Type: Parish Registers
Father occupation:- Labourer Address:- 42 Besley (??) Street
This is NOT a child of Edward and Louisa Worley Wiseman ............
Name: Lilian Mary Wiseman Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 15 Feb 1903 Father's Name: Edward Charles Wiseman Mother's name: Louisa Mary Wiseman Parish or Poor Law Union: St Oswald, Anselm Road Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham Register Type: Parish Registers
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Chris Ho :)
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7 Dec 2014 09:09 |
Looks like he was away 1871 1881 Military...
Hertfordshire Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past) First name(s) Edward Last name Wiseman Birth year 1846 Birth day 13 Birth month Aug Baptism year 1846 Baptism day 20 Baptism month Sep Place Wormley Father's first name(s) Thomas Father's occupation Labourer Mother's first names(s) Ann
Births Sep 1846 (>99%) --------------------------------------------- Wiseman Edward Ware 6 395
Chris :)
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patchem
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7 Dec 2014 09:23 |
Are these births showing anywhere?
1911 census Arthur Wiseman 9 b.ca 1902, Streatham, Son Nellie Wiseman 6 b.ca 1905, Streatham, Daughter Ivy Wiseman 2 b.ca 1909, Streatham, Daughter
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patchem
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7 Dec 2014 09:27 |
Have you used free bmd to look for deaths, as this looks a possibility:
Deaths Mar 1913 Wiseman Thomas W 39 Dartford 2a 843
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Chris Ho :)
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7 Dec 2014 09:53 |
London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 (Ancestry)
Wiseman 12 Feb 1891 Norwood Cemetery, Norwood Road, Lambeth
(one above, 42 Besley Street. 4 days. No Name)
Chris :)
Deaths Mar 1891 (>99%) ----------------------------------------------------- Wiseman Male 0 Wandsworth 1d 531
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SylviaInCanada
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7 Dec 2014 20:32 |
patchem .......
I did look for those 3 births last night
there are birth registrations, and there are even 2 or 3 baptisms for each name ................ none have the parents named as Edward and Louisa
Personally, I think at least the last 2 could be grandchildren, maybe of an unmarried daughter.
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Rachel
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8 Dec 2014 04:55 |
Thank you all so much, it is like pulling threads out of a giant tangle, I primarily use Ancestry and have only been researching about a month, but quickly discovered this family was - (on most trees I looked at) in a huge mess!!
Arthur Wiseman 9 b.ca 1902, Streatham, Son Nellie Wiseman 6 b.ca 1905, Streatham, Daughter Ivy Wiseman 2 b.ca 1909, Streatham, Daughter
I think these last 3 are all the children of Arthur (number 1) and actually grandchildren of Edward and Louisa Certainly Nellie (Ellen) and Arthur are - looking at school records, still cannot find Ivy - looking at all the children though in case she belongs to one of the others!!
I have no idea why Horace Edward would be recorded as Jessies father at Baptism - Horace was my nans Grandfather and she told me her mum Plessie was the oldest, unless he had a secret child ? Horace was raised by his Grandparents on his mothers side, which is where all this started and part of the Tangle is to do with her (Louisa Worley - Mason/Pile/Wiseman) I think she was born before her parents married (hence Pile).
Chris Ho - you are Awesome - you have found another missing child :)
Thank You so much for your help :-D
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Rachel
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9 Dec 2014 02:11 |
There is also a Queenie Wiseman born in 1883,
adopted by the Mason family (Louisa Worley Mason/Pile's parents) Who was living with them on the 1891, and 1901 census (Ancestry). She must have come from one of the Wiseman family, too much coincidence. But having trouble finding more - It was probably a nickname!!
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SylviaInCanada
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9 Dec 2014 04:47 |
Queenie Wiseman, b.ca 1883, Maidstone, is a domestic servant with the Cox family in Maidstone in the 1901 Census ...................
is the Cox family connected with the Mason/Pile's??
Queenie was also a legitimate name, not only a nickname
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Rachel
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9 Dec 2014 21:20 |
No the COx's nothing to do with the Masons. I wondered about a nickname after discovering Nellie was actually Ellen I can find no records of a birth of a Queenie - and which of the Wisemans she would have come from! It doesn't really have any impact on my tree, but these Wisemans have got under my skin! I am totally obsessed Then you for all your help SylvainCanada
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