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jenVG
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25 Oct 2014 14:48 |
Yes you are quite right. It is so good to bounce these theories off all you researchers. Heartfelt thanks to you all. :-(
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greyghost
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25 Oct 2014 14:25 |
Service records show Home 2.9.04 - 12.1.06 India 13.1.06 - 25.10.07 Home 26.10.07 - 13.8.14
Obviously he didn't get from India to home in 1 day!! Did Home start from the day he left India or was travelling time from India included in the dates recorded as in India. If he left India 25th October, what was the travelling time to England? I would have thought he would have been home for December?
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patchem
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25 Oct 2014 13:49 |
Do you believe that Catherine would have been eligible to vote in 1915? Unfortunately not, surely? That information was from a ER not a complete household list.
Steyning is near Hove - I use google maps to look up places if I do not know them.
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jenVG
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25 Oct 2014 13:33 |
I'm back now and amazed at all you have found out. I have used free BMD and no births showed up as you say.
I am basing my thoughts on the fact that a Michael John Kirby was the witness at the wedding of my relative Henry Frederick Bass in December 1907. This could rule out Greyghost's chap - although 1907 was his final year in India and he may have returned in time for the wedding on 22nd December 1907 at The Guardian Angels Chapel, Mile End Old Town.
The 1911 census showing Hannah as mother seems correct as he is showing as a Carter. (The bridegroom was a driver also). The bride was from Whitechapel too.The birth date for Catherine Goring was arrived at from the 1911 census showing her as a 19 yrs old kitchen maid in South Kensington and being born in Hove Sussex. Her name has been transcribed as Katherine with a K but is clearly a C on the original. The FMP marriage shows Catherine Goring marrying Michael J KIrby in Whitechapel in January 1913.
Prickly Holly. The marriage to William Partlett shows Catherine Kirby as a spinster and as such she would have been Catherine Goring.
I think the Michael Kirby Whitechapel birth in Mar 1886 could well be him as that area figures largely in the families of bride and groom. So if he is the military Michael then it seems the couple had no children.
Patchem - That looks like the chap in 1915 at 24 Royal Mint Square. If I could get on to the Ancestry London Voters I would be looking to see if there was a Henry Frederick Bass living nearby. So, if Michael J Kirby had a Catherine Kirby living with him at the time it would be good.
Does anyone know if Steyning is near to Hove in Sussex as that is where she said she was born on the 1911 census.
I'll do some more tree searches for his siblings. Thanks a billion for your help. ;-)
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Jacqueline
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25 Oct 2014 12:07 |
Connected to............
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1345891
and at least one other
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Jacqueline
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25 Oct 2014 12:00 |
Found a birth in Whitechapel, but NO second name
Births Mar 1886 (>99%) KIRBY Michael Whitechapel 1c 369
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Jacqueline
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25 Oct 2014 11:56 |
How do you know when and where Michael was born?
there is no record on freebmd to match your info about him
Have you used freebmd at all?
Births Jun 1891 (>99%) GORING Catherine Steyning 2b 303
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Jacqueline
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25 Oct 2014 11:54 |
I would advise you to get a copy of the 1913 marriage cert, to ensure that you don't follow entirely the wrong line.
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PricklyHolly
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25 Oct 2014 10:48 |
You can forget my post.........
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Catherine Kirby Name:Catherine Kirby (Spinster) Estimated Birth Year:abt 1901 Age:20 Spouse: William Partlett Spouse Age:24 Record Type:Marriage Event Date:5 Nov 1921 Parish:St Saviour, Poplar Borough:Tower Hamlets Father Name:Jacob Kirby Spouse Father:William Partlett Register Type:Parish Register
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greyghost
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25 Oct 2014 10:33 |
If correct man - Short service attestation shows him born in the parish of St George's , London aged 18yr 6 months and a Carman. He is serving in the 5th Battalion Middx Reg as a Militia man when he joins the Scottish Rifles 2 September 1904.
Described as 5ft 41/2 in (5ft 5in after 6 month service and gymnastic course!), weight 115 lbs, chest 341/2in when fully expanded. Fresh complexion, grey eyes, brown hair and a Roman Catholic. He has clasped hands and heart left forearm, a tombstone right forearm and a mole above left knee.
Transferred to the Army Reserve October 1907 and Mobilised at Hamilton 5th August 1914 and then transferred to Class Z Army Reserve 6.5.19 on Demobilisation. Home address at this time (?133) Catherine Buildings, Cartwright St, London.
He served in India 1906-1907 and the French Expeditionary Force 14.3.14 - 4.1.15 and 24.11.15 - 24.3.16 and Mediterranean EX Force 8.8.16 - 26.2.19. Noted at home 5.8.14 - 13.8.14 and 5.1.15 - 23.112.15 between these dates. Awarded the 1914 Star medal still with Scottish Rifles
Records stamped by Ministry of Pensions 5.5.20.
NOK remain as Mother Hannah and younger Brother Patrick of 10 New Martin St, Dock St, EC on his service records throughout. No marriage or children noted
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jenVG
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25 Oct 2014 10:23 |
Thanks everybody. Must go off line for an hour - then I'll study it all. best regards, jennifer
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greyghost
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25 Oct 2014 10:16 |
If this is him at the time of the 1901 census it shows him with mother Hannah and brother Patrick who are listed as his NOK when he attested in 1904 aged 18
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 10, New Martin Street, Whitechapel, London, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Hannah Kirby Head Widow Female 42 1859 Trousers Tailoress Aldgate, Middlesex, England Mary Kirby Daughter Single Female 18 1883 Flower Seed Packer Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Margaret Kirby Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Tobacco Moulder Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Michael Kirby Son Single Male 15 1886 Errand Boy Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Patrick Kirby Son - Male 13 1888 - Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Ellen Kirby Daughter - Female 11 1890 - Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Elizabeth Murley Aunt Single Female 50 1851 - Aldgate, Middlesex, England
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patchem
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25 Oct 2014 10:13 |
? London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 Name: Michael John Kirby Year: 1915 County or Borough: Tower Hamlets Ward or Division/Constituency: Whitechapel Street address: 24 Royal Mint-square
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PricklyHolly
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25 Oct 2014 10:11 |
How about this.........
????
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Michael Kirby Name:Michael Kirby Birth Date:abt 1886 Date of Registration:Jun 1920 Age at Death:34 Registration district:Lewisham Inferred County:London Volume:1d Page:1083
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Catherine Goring Name:Catherine Goring Registration Year:1891 Registration Quarter:Apr-May-Jun Registration district:Steyning Inferred County:Sussex Volume:2b Page:303
England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005 about Catherine Kirby Name:Catherine Kirby Spouse Name: William Partlett Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1921 Registration district:Poplar Inferred County:London Volume Number:1c Page Number:882
London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 about Catherine Partlett Name:Catherine Partlett Year:1930 County or Borough:Camden Ward or Division/Constituency:St Pancras Street address:100 Guilford Street
Living at the same address....
William Partlett Alice Esther Kirby Kathleen Louise Kirby John William Kirby Thomas Henry Kirby
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greyghost
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25 Oct 2014 10:06 |
Using the free site
http://www.freebmd.org.uk
and FMP to check for births to the couple, none are shown
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patchem
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25 Oct 2014 10:05 |
Have you looked for possible births of children on free bmd, and deaths for either of them?
Thank-you
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jenVG
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25 Oct 2014 09:33 |
Are there any descendants of the above couple who married in Whitechapel London in Q1 1913. Catherine was born in Hove Sussex in 1892 and Michael was born in Whitechapel London in 1886. I don't see the couple on passenger lists. Any help would be appreciated.
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