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maybe John Butler was a made-up name ...........

.......... a common practice on a marriage certificate if the bride or groom was illegitimate


or maybe John Butler was a "step-father" who married Charles' mother after he was born, but while Charles was still young and thus didn't know John was not his real father.



In either case, it could mean that he was registered under his mother's surname.

No, couldn't find out either Daphne, as mentioned, maybe wasn't registered, wondered if Elizabeth might turn something up, on link posted earlier.

Chris :)

I do have all the above info but can't find a record of Charles Butler birth so don't know his parents names except his father is John Butler don't know where he was born or when

Lol Sylvia, you never know!, bit of a mystery themselves those Thwaites!, 1869 Norwich Marriage for Henry Cubitt, Louisa Thwaites, relates to Niece on 1891 with WT above...

(walked many a mile on good ol' Yarmouth streets and seafront, childhood memories!)

Chris :)

(sorry Daphne, no advance on Charles!)

this could be William Thomas in 1891


1891 Census

Name: William Strudwick
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Strudwick
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: Great Yarmouth
Town: Great Yarmouth
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Registration district: Yarmouth
Sub-registration district: Yarmouth Northern
ED, institution, or vessel: Great Yarmouth Fair

Piece: 1503
Folio: 140
Page Number: 1

William Strudwick 36 Rifle Saloon Owner
Eliza Strudwick 32 b.ca 1859, Norwich, Rifle Saloon Owner
Laura Strudwick 11 Rifle Saloon Owner
Eliza Cubitt 20 Saloon Attendant
John Smith 21 Saloon Attendant

Address:- Church Plain



All their "neighbours" are travelling show people of various kinds.



his father was a Pork Butcher on his baptism


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about William Thomas Strudwick

Name: William Thomas Strudwick
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Dec 1854
Father's Name: William Thomas Strudwick, Pork Butcher
Mother's name: Sarah Elizabeth Strudwick
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Bride Fleet Street
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers



He must have "run away to join the circus" :-D

hmmmmmmmmmmmm


possible Professional Witness then???


or is WT likely to be a traveller himself?

Not sure on witnesses Sylvia, Clara Brown, related to Alice probably, W T Strudwick with wife Eliza, also Market Place, Yarmouth 1891, Eliza has birthplace of Norwich, so not sure if anything there...

Marriages Jun 1887 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Strudwick William Thomas Peterbro' 3b 435
Thwaites Eliza Peterbro 3b 435


Births Mar 1859 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
THWAITES Eliza Norwich 4b 112

Chris :)

edits (just as observation, notice WT also a witness again, 1891 to another Marriage, groom also 'Traveller')

If it makes any difference ................. two Public Trees on ancestry have him as Charles William Butler




Charles William Butler
Birth 1866 in Lowestoft, Suffolk, England
Death 13 MAY 1948 in Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, England


Father

John Butler
Birth 1843
Death


Spouse and Children

Alice Brown
1871 –

Private

Private

Frank Butler
1890 –

William Charles Butler
1892 – 1960

Clara Butler
1893 –

Ada Butler
1898 –

Frank Butler
1902 –

Charles Butler
1904 – 1994

Everlean Butler
1908 –

Fred Butler
1911 –

do you have his marriage certificate?

If so, who are the witnesses?

Name: Charles Butler
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1891
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birthplace: Lowestoft
Schedule Type: Institution
Registration District: Yarmouth
Sub-District: Yarmouth Southern
Ecclesiastical Parish: Great Yarmouth
Parish: Great Yarmouth
County: Norfolk

?????????????

Name: Charles Butler
Event Type: Military Service
Event Year Range: 1806-1915
Event Place: United Kingdom
Birthplace: Suffolk
Birth Year (Estimated): 1868

Name: Charles Butler
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Gender: Male
Age: 44
Birthplace: Lowestoft, Suffolk
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Wisbech
Sub-District: Wisbech
Parish: Wisbech St Peter
County: Cambridgeshire

It wasn't until 1875 that penalties were introduced for not registering births, so his may simply not have been.

have you looked for him with parents in 1871 and 1881?

Both censuses are free and in full on familysearch website

County Norfolk
Place Norwich
Church St Peter Per Mountergate
RegisterNumber 293
MarriageDate 01 Jan 1890
GroomForename Charles
GroomSurname BUTLER
GroomAge 21
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Traveller
GroomAbode Castle Meadow
BrideForename Alice Rachael
BrideSurname BROWN
BrideAge 19
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation Traveller
BrideAbode Castle Meadow
GroomFatherForename John
GroomFatherSurname BUTLER
GroomFatherOccupation Carpenter, Dec'd
BrideFatherForename John
BrideFatherSurname BROWN
BrideFatherOccupation Traveller
WitnessOneForename W T
WitnessOneSurname STRUDWICK
WitnessTwoForename Clara
WitnessTwoSurname BROWN
Notes Banns, bride and groom made their mark

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

(would that be above?)

Chris :)

1891
Charles Butler Head Married Male 23 1868 Travelling Showman Lowestoft
Alice Butler Wife Married Female 20 1871 - Norwich, Norfolk, England
Rose Crow Servant Single Female 15 1876 Travelling Showman Norwich
Street Market Place
Parish Great Yarmouth
City Great Yarmouth
County Norfolk
Registration district Yarmouth
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 1503
Folio 140
Page 1


1911
Charles Butler Head Married Male 44 1867 Lowestoft General Porter
Alice Butler Wife Married Female 40 1871 Peterborough At Home
William Butler Son Single Male 20 1891 Wipper (Wicken) Nr Ely Painters Laborer
Clara Butler Daughter Single Female 18 1893 Chattris Cambs Demostic Servent
Ada Butler Daughter Single Female 13 1898 Hadenham At School
Frank Butler Son Single Male 9 1902 Lynn At School
Charles Butler Son Single Male 7 1904 Peterborough At School
Everlean Butler Daughter Single Female 3 1908 Wisbech -
Fred Butler Son Single Male 0 1911 Wisbech -
Address 25 Carpenters Arms Yard Wisbech
Parish Wisbech St Peter
County Cambridgeshire Country England
Registration district Wisbech
Census reference
RG14PN9299 RG78PN500 RD187 SD2 ED5 SN330


http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1342925

(might be worth seeing if Elizabeth turns anything up!, on above 'Thread'
Romany Gypsy look ups)


edits

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ENG-CAMBRIDGESHIRE/2000-11/0974325589

(relates to son William Charles, although his Baptism is below, but worth a look on google for Romany websites, might be someone with a connection!)


Cambridgeshire Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)
First Name WILLIAM CHARLES
Last Name BUTLER
Year Of Birth 1891
Birth date 18 Jun 8
Baptism year 1891
Baptism date 24 Jun 1891
Abode of Upper Hellesdon Norwich
Place SOHAM
Mother's Given Name Alice Rachel
Father's First Name Charles
Father occupation stall-keeper


http://www.gypsyjib.com/

http://romanygenes.com/

I am looking for info on my Grandfather Charles Butler 1868
Married to Alice Brown who were both fairground travellers,
he was born in Lowestoft but I can't find a record of his birth
it was stated on his marriage cert his father was John Butler disceesed this was 1890 I would like to find the names of Charles parents