Isaac Irwin bc1818 married Ann Rice bc 1821 moved from Armagh (I am not sure if this is Armagh county or city) with his children Susan Irwin b 1839 William John b 1843 d 1902 John b 1850 Lindsay b 1854 d 1924 (male) All deaths occurred in Scotland Martha Lina b 1860 d 1914 Robert b 1856 d 1926
( As there is a gap between William J and John I suspect there may have been a few child deaths) The family moved from Ireland to Scotland between 1866 and 1871. Isaac's father was James Irwin who married (edit) Rose Mc Mullen both bc 1795
I have several Scottish census that state The family was born in Armagh Ireland. The only official record I have found was in the LDS film of the marriage of Susan Irwin (recorded officially as Erwin) to David Clarke in 1864 and the birth of there daughter Isabella in 1865. Marriage took place in the Rosemary Street Presbyterian Church, Belfast (which one I don't know as there were 3 in 1865?)
My request is if anyone has access to Irish records can you either point me in a direction where I can start to trace some form of records for the family and start me off in what has been a frustrating 7 year search.
If I can find a definite record in Armagh county I would make a visit over to Ireland and start proper search.
Other info that may be useful. Isaac was a mason. I have contacted David Hamilton at the Provincial Grand Lodge of Armagh. but unfortunately the records are not digitised therefore not readily searchable. :-(
Any pointers, clues, no matter how small or what seems insignificant will be gratefully received. Even evidence of a township would be helpful.
Thanks In advance Gordon.
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Sorry Gordon, just a small correction. Your tree? on ancestry has Isaac's parents as
James Irwin Erwin 1795 –
Rose Mc Mullen 1795 – 1875
These names are also on Isaac's death certificate so who is Ann Lindsey?
EDIT Ah I see she was Ann's mother married to James Rice.
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Some of the dates I've found are different and the family seemed to move around
Church Baptism Record Susanna Irwin Date of Birth: 21-Jul-1835 Date of Baptism: 16-Aug-1835 Address: Scarva Parish/District: Aghaderg Gender: County Co. Down Denomination: Church Of Ireland Father: Isaac Irwin Mother: Anne God parents: Edward Dixon, ? Irwin, & Jane Rice
Church Baptism Record William John Irwin Date of Baptism: 19-Aug-1840 Address: Belfast Parish/District: ST ANNE'S, SHANKILL Gender: Male County Co. Antrim Denomination: Church of Ireland Father: Isaac Irwin Mother: Anne Rice
Church Baptism Record Isaac Irwin Date of Birth: Date of Baptism: 05-Jul-1844 Address: Belfast Parish/District: ST ANNE'S, SHANKILL Gender: Male County Co. Antrim Denomination: Church of Ireland Father: Isaac Irwin Mother: Nancy Rice
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Gordon- I see some more records of other possible siblings which may be of interest- but they suggest that Isaac was a Farmer and not a mason as you suggest- where did the mason information come from??
This may be the marriage of Susan that you mentioned?? But this also states her father was a farmer:
Church Marriage Record Church: ROSEMARY ST Presbyterian Date of Marriage: 27-Jan-1863 Parish / District: BELFAST County: Co. Antrim Name: David Clarke Occ: Clerk Spouse: Susan Erwin Address: Belfast Belfast Denomination: Presbyterian Both of Full Age (Over 21) Husbands Father: David Clarke Occ: Farmer Wife's Father: Isaac Erwin Occ: Farmer Witnesses: R Duffern & Archibald Rice
The brother of Susan, Isaac, married in ARMAGH in 1872 and also moved to Scotland. This is his marriage:
Civil Marriage Record 27-Apr-1872 Parish / District: MULLABRACK CI County: ARMAGH Name: Isaac Irwin Address: Teemore. Occupation: SIGNAL FITTER Jane Jackson Address: Teemore Denomination: Civil Parish / District Both of Full Age Husband's father Isaac Irwin. Occ: Farmer Wife's Father: John Jackson. Occ: Farmer Witnesses: Thomas Clements Andrew Cloughley
This could be Isaac and Jane in 1901 (ancestry transcription) :
Name: Isaac Irwin Age: 52 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849 Relationship: Head Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Registration Number: 644/8 Registration district: Milton Civil Parish: Glasgow St George County: Lanarkshire Address: 5 Crossburn St Occupation: Signal Fitter ED: 17 Household schedule number: 13 LINE: 5 Roll: CSSCT1901_294 Household Members: Isaac Irwin 52 Jane Irwin 50 Martha Irwin 30 Daughter b. Ireland John Irwin 21 Son b. Glasgow Lindsay Irwin 19 Son b. Glasgow Annie Irwin 14 Daughter b. Glasgow Jane Irwin 9 Daughter b. Glasgow
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This record is interesting.
Civil Marriage Record 27-Apr-1872 Parish / District: MULLABRACK CI County: ARMAGH Name: Isaac Irwin Address: Teemore. Occupation: SIGNAL FITTER Jane Jackson Address: Teemore Denomination: Civil Parish / District Both of Full Age Husband's father Isaac Irwin. Occ: Farmer Wife's Father: John Jackson. Occ: Farmer Witnesses: Thomas Clements Andrew Cloughley
As the Irish and Scottish both follow the same naming structures ie gf name becomes the eldest sons first name etc, same with mothers /daughters. I have often come across this record in ancestry but could never link the 2 families because i could not place an Isaac as a son. For my interest, where did you find the reference as Isaac and Susan as brother and sister?
All the childrens names are the same as others siblings childrens names, aswell as having a Jane Jackson irwin (which I could never place the Jackson reference).
Thanks Gritty. Alviegal thanks for spotting my mistake on the wifes name for James.
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Thanks Gritty.
I have made a link between
this record
Civil Marriage Record 27-Apr-1872 Parish / District: MULLABRACK CI County: ARMAGH Name: Isaac Irwin Address: Teemore. Occupation: SIGNAL FITTER Jane Jackson Address: Teemore Denomination: Civil Parish / District Both of Full Age Husband's father Isaac Irwin. Occ: Farmer Wife's Father: John Jackson. Occ: Farmer Witnesses: Thomas Clements Andrew Cloughley
And Isaac Irwin jnr who moved to and died in Glasgow. His Death entry cites Isaac Irwin snr and Ann Rice as his parents. Isaac Jnr had a daughter born in Tandragee, Armagh, Ireland. His death cert also cites Isaac snr as a Farmer which ties up nicely. I now have a link to Ireland that I can follow up and now write to the churches for further info to ensure accurate info.
Thanks to all that responded.
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