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I need some help!

William Pratt married my great grand aunt Sarah Marchant at the general baptist church Trowbridge on 10 December 1854. He gives his age as 24, bachelor, address Cardiff, father William Pratt Weaver

I think this is him in 1851
Name: William Pratt
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Porter
Gender: Male
Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish or Township: Cardiff St John
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 4a
Piece: 2455
Folio: 79
Page Number: 52
Household schedule number: 130
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel P Sternick 25
Thomas Parry 37
Margaret Parry 37
William Pratt 20

This is definitely him in 1861
Name: William Pratt
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Pratt
Gender: Male
Where born: Westbury, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish or Township: Roath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 75
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4039
Folio: 40
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
William Pratt 30
Sarah Pratt 34
William Pratt 5
Alfred Pratt 3
Selina Pratt 1
Mary Marchant 9

and in 1881

Name: William Pratt
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Pratt
Mother's name: Elizabeth Whatley
Gender: Male
Where born: Westbury, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Roath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 44 Castle Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Grocer
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5284
Folio: 111
Page Number: 97
Household Members:
Name Age
William Pratt 49
Sarah Pratt 56
Elizabeth Whatley 91
Alfred Pratt 24
Sarah A. Talbot 18
Alice Parslow 17

Elizabeth Whatley is listed as "mother" "windoer" (sic)

So working back this is her - I think - in 1861

Name: Elizabeth Whatley
Age: 70
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Whatley
Gender: Female
Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish or Township: Roath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 222
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4039
Folio: 49
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
William Whatley 72
Elizabeth Whatley 70

and I have what I think is her in 1871 with another son Joseph Whatley.

So how was William a Pratt :-) ? If William Whatley was her husband, and elder sibling Joseph was a Whatley and she was with William Whatley in 1861 then who is William Pratt senior?

To confuse things...I have found a Joseph Watley in 1881 with a Sarah Pratt - who is NOT my Sarah Pratt.....help!!!!!!!!

Jude

?

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Elizabeth Whatley
Name: Elizabeth Whatley
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 8 Mar 1789
Baptism Place: Durnford,Wiltshire,England
Father: John Whatley
Mother: Ann
FHL Film Number: 1279337

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Elizabeth Whatley
Name: Elizabeth Whatley
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1790
Registration Year: 1882
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 92
Registration district: Cardiff
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 214

is this the 1871 census

1871 Wales Census about Elizabeth Whatley
Name: Elizabeth Whatley
Age: 80
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Relation: Mother
Gender: Female
Where born: Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Roath
Ecclesiastical parish: Roath
Town: Roath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 27a
Household schedule number: 301
Piece: 5366
Folio: 137
Page Number: 64
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Whatley 51
Mary Ann Whatley 53
Emily Whatley 18
Thomas Whatley 16
Elizabeth Whatley 80

there is this 1861

1861 Wales Census about Elizabeth Whatley
Name: Elizabeth Whatley
Age: 70
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Whatley
Gender: Female
Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish or Township: Roath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 222
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4039
Folio: 49
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
William Whatley 72
Elizabeth Whatley 70

Yes Maddie, that's the death I have assumed for her....I just can't work out if she was a Whatley by marriage how her, seemingly, first son is a Whatley and her second a Pratt.

And yes that is the 1861 and 1871 censuses I have....

But there is also the possibility that there are also two Whatley Pratt connections

I can't find her in 1841 or 1851 and I can't find the young William Pratt in 1841 either.


:-S

Possible remarriage to William??

After son William Pratt born

Joseph Whatley could be son from William first marriage


Wiltshire, England, Marriages, 1538-1837
about William Whatley


Name:
William Whatley
Marriage Date:5 Aug 1833
Parish:Trowbridge
Marital Status:Widower
Residence:Trowbridge
Spouse:
>>>>>>>Elizabeth Spratt

>>>>>>Spouse Marital Status:Widow
Spouse Residence:of This Parish
Document Type:Banns


Andy

i wonder

Name: Willm. Spratt
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 20 May 1831
Death Place: Westbury, Wiltshire, England
Age: 38
Birth Date: 1793
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B16081-2 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1239308 , Reference ID: Item 11 pg 111 #884er

Oh Andy...all conjecture but that looks a possibility....so she was a Pratt and gave birth to William and then married William Whatley. EDIT - maybe ignore as it looks like Sprat IS Sprat not Pratt

So now need to find a marriage between a William Pratt (weaver) and an Elizabeth..and a death for William Pratt between William junior's birth. From censuses he gives 1831/2 as birth but from marriage certificate it could be 1829/30 - I do not have a birth/christening to back his birth at all!

It doesn't explain this 1881 census which is NOT my Sarah

Name: Joseph Watley
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Llandaff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 3 Mary Ann St
Condition as to marriage: Widow
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Gardiner
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5282
Folio: 55
Page Number: 58
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Pratt 45
Job Pratt 13
Sophia Pratt 10
Edward Pratt 8
Sarah Pratt 6
Joseph Watley 62

Jude

:-(

This in 1841


1841 England Census
about William Wheatley

Name:William Wheatley
Age:40
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1801
Gender:Male
Where born:Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish:Trowbridge
Hundred:Melksham
County/Island:Wiltshire
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration district:Melksham
Sub-registration district:Trowbridge
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:1182
Book:13
Folio:51
Page Number:7
Household Members:
Name
Age
William Wheatley 40
Eliza Wheatley 45
Simon Wheatley 15
Phoebe Wheatley 15
John Wheatley 10
Edward Wheatley 5


and next door or part of same household

John Sprat 10
William Sprat 10


I wonder if the name changed from Spratt to Pratt after the move to Wales??

Andy

on FMP they are shown in same household....can anyone decipher the words next to the two ten year old Sprats...it could almost be stepson???

Jude

England & Wales, Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1970 about William Sprat
Name: William Sprat
Birth Date: 26 Jan 1831
Birth Place: Westbury, Wiltshire, England
Gender: Male
Event Type: Baptism
Father: William Sprat
Mother: Elizabeth
Baptism Date: 27 Feb 1831
Baptism Place: Warminster, Wiltshire, England
Denomination: Wesleyan
Piece Title: Piece 3369: Warminster, George Street Chapel (Wesleyan), 1796-1837

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about William Sprat
Name: William Sprat
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 26 Jan 1831
Baptism Date: 27 Feb 1831
Baptism Place: George Street Wesleyan Methodist,Warminster,Wiltshire,England
Father: William Sprat
Mother: Elizabeth
FHL Film Number: 0816602 (RG4 3369)

England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
about Willm. Spratt

Name:Willm. Spratt
Gender:Male
Age:38
Birth Date:1793
Death Place:Westbury, Wiltshire, England
Burial Date:20 May 1831
FHL Film Number:1239308
Reference ID:Item 11 pg 111 #884

Andy

If the age at marriage is correct then this is not him....in December 1854 he declares himself to be 24 which means he was born 1829/30

Annoyingly the witnesses are both Marchants so give no help whatsoever!

Jude

But it's all so tempting ;-)

Don't be too worried about ages not being correct in records. A year or two (sometimes a lot more) out is very very common. Probably most people didn't know their exact age.

Andy

Yes I know Andy...and it is all a very tempting and plausible explanation for my original question and as to why I can't find William before 1851 as "Pratt"

Oh well off to cook some kebabs now!

Jude

The 2 10 year olds on the 41 census can't be stepsons as no relationships are given on that census. Whatever is written is in the occupation column and I think they were slubbers or more probably slubber doffers.

Slubber Prepared cotton for spinning, removing the "slubs" or imperfections in the yarn.
Slubber Doffer Removed the empty bobbins from the loom spindles

Cheers Margee - I didn't think it was stepson but couldn't think what it WAS!

Makes sense

Jude