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Ann
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15 Sep 2014 09:55 |
thank you ArgyllGran the information gives me something to start researching again
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ArgyllGran
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15 Sep 2014 06:34 |
Actually, (next morning, in the cold light of day) Agnes can't have been a second wife. She was already his wife, but away from home in 1841, visiting the Coopers.
So Jean might be Robert's sister.
However . . . . Robert wasn't Mary's father, who was a joiner living in Edinburgh in 1837 - unless he had a radical change of career direction between 1837 and 1841. Or the parish clerk made a big mistake.
But there must be some relationship between Agnes and Mary, for Agnes to have been visiting Mary in 1841.
I can't see Mary's birth on ScotlandsPeople - but it was before registration was compulsory.
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Ann
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14 Sep 2014 22:49 |
Thank you ArgyllGran
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ArgyllGran
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14 Sep 2014 21:50 |
Looks like Agnes was Robert Aiton's second wife (unless Jean was perhaps his sister):
Here's Robert in 1841:
1841 Scotland Census about Robert Aiton Name: Robert Aiton Age: 55 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786 Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil Parish: Hamilton County: Lanarkshire Address: Muir Wind Occupation: Law Agint <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Parish Number: 647 Household Members: Name Age Robert Aiton 55 Jean Aiton 50 William Aiton 30 - age might be mistranscribed - occupation Retired Sheriff.
(Lots of other people on Ancestry's transcription, but they look like other households.)
So Agnes probably couldn't be Mary's mother. In any case, Mary's marriage record says her father was Robert Aiton, Joiner
I don't see him in Edinburgh in 1841.
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Ann
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14 Sep 2014 21:03 |
Thank you ArgyllGran
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ArgyllGran
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14 Sep 2014 20:55 |
Agnes and George Aiton in 1851. They must have been just visiting the Coopers in 1841:
1851 Scotland Census about Agnes Aiton Name: Agnes Aiton Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801 Relationship: Wife Spouse: Robert Aiton Gender: Female Where born: Hamilton, Lanark Parish Number: 647 Civil Parish: Hamilton Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps: View related Ecclesiastical Parish County: Lanarkshire Address: 53 Muir St ED: 2A Page: 19 Household schedule number: 79 LINE: 15 Roll: CSSCT1851_168 Household Members: Name Age Robert Aiton 18 - age must be a mistranscription - Sheriff Court Clerk Agnes Aiton 50 Margaret Aiton 28 Robert Aiton 26 William Aiton 21 John Aiton 16 George Aiton 14 Margaret Ryle 18 - servant
And 1861?? Robert is a solicitor, not in practice:
1861 England Census about George Aiton Name: George Aiton Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: 1838 Relation: Son Father's Name: Robert Aiton Mother's name: Agnes Aiton Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil Parish: Chelsea Ecclesiastical parish: St Simon County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Chelsea Sub-registration district: Chelsea North East ED, institution, or vessel: 3d Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 198 Piece: 39 Folio: 15 Page Number: 28 Household Members: Name Age Robert Aiton 78 Agnes Aiton 60 George Aiton 23
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Ann
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14 Sep 2014 20:48 |
Thank you now the mystery deepens
Robert Cooper born Scotland or Ireland further research need now
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ArgyllGran
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14 Sep 2014 20:44 |
This is Ancestry's version of that 1841 census. And it's correct. On the image, all those other people in the version posted by Alviegal are in three other households, all in Lever Street. There are eight pages of Lever Street households, with no house numbers.
However, it's not necessarily right in saying Robert was born in Ireland. There's a tick in the column for "Whether born in Scotland, Ireland, or Foreign Parts". The transcriber has decided that all the others in the family were born in Scotland, except Jane, who was born Lancashire.
No relationships given, nor occupations, except for Robert, who's a currier :
1841 England Census about Robt Cooper Name: Robt Cooper Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821 Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Civil Parish: Manchester Hundred: Salford County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Lever Street Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Market Street Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 573 Book: 11 Folio: 13 Page Number: 20 Household Members: Name Age Robt Cooper 20 Agnes Aiton 40 George Aiton 4 Mary Cooper 20 Agnes Cooper 2 Jane Cooper 1 Mo
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alviegal
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14 Sep 2014 20:30 |
Hi Ann, I think Lever Street in 1841 was possibly like tenements with families in 1 room. There are lots of Scots and Irish in the mix.
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alviegal
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14 Sep 2014 20:24 |
And the 1911
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 121 Lord St Walsall, Walsall, Staffordshire, England Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation Alfred Palmer Head Married Male 58 1853 Birmingham Thearer In Edge Tooles Works Transcription Jean Palmer Wife Married Female 51 1860 Belfast Resident -
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Ann
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14 Sep 2014 20:22 |
Thanks alviegal
Thank you A lot of information to take in
The 1841 Census is interesting
Mary Cooper nee Aiton I wonder if Agnes Aiton is her mother not sure who George Aiton is.
As there are a lot of names in the household wondering if the property was some sort of boarding house Do you have access to the actual census document would be interesting to see relationship details and Occ of other people as there seem to be a mix of Scottish and Irish people
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alviegal
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14 Sep 2014 20:09 |
Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 about Margaret Cook Name: Margaret Cook, warehouse woman of 2 Whitney Place Gender: Female Birth Year: abt 1886 Marriage Date: 11 Nov 1906 Marriage Age: 20 Marriage Place: Birmingham, St Mark, Warwickshire, England Spouse: Frank Leather, brassdresser of 5 Whitney Place Spouse Gender: Male Spouse Marriage Age: 21 Father: John Cook (reads Cooper) Son of Robert in above entry Spouse's Father: Joseph Leather, brassfitter Reference Number: DRO 33 Archive Roll: 615
Harriet Cook and George Pearce? were witnesses.
This marriage is on the same page as Jean Cook and Alfred Palmer above.
EDIT Reposting to keep things together.
Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 about Jean Cook Name: Jean Cook, tin? cleaner of 2 Whitney Place [Jean Cooper] Gender: Female Birth Year: abt 1859 Marriage Date: 11 Nov 1906 Marriage Age: 47 Marriage Place: Birmingham, St Mark, Warwickshire, England Spouse: Alfred Palmer, ironworker of 9 Whitney Place Spouse Gender: Male Spouse Marriage Age: 52 Father: Robert Cooper, leather currier Spouse's Father: William Palmer, carpenter Reference Number: DRO 33 Archive Roll: 615
Samuel Green, Frank Leather, Mary Green and Margaret Cook were witnesses.
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alviegal
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14 Sep 2014 19:48 |
Birmingham, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912 about Mary Cook Name: Mary Cook Birth Date: 12 May 1877 Baptism Date: 27 Feb 1888 Baptism Place: Birmingham, St Mark, Warwickshire, England Father: John Cook Mother: Jean Cook Reference Number: DRO 33 Archive Roll: 613
Baptised with Harriet, b 21 Nov 1878, Jean b 22 Nov 1880, Agnes b 3 Aug 1882, John b 8 Apr 1885 and William. Father was a pencilcase maker of 9 Grosvenor Place, Camden Street,
Birmingham, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912 about Margaret Cook Name: Margaret Cook Baptism Date: 22 Aug 1889 Baptism Place: Birmingham, St Mark, Warwickshire, England Father: John Cook, silversmith of 11 Tridale? Street Mother: Jean Cook Reference Number: DRO 33 Archive Roll: 613
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alviegal
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14 Sep 2014 19:31 |
Ah ha, possible?
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Ct 39/, 10, Irving Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place John Cook Head Married Male 26 1855 Silver Smith Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Transcription Jane Cook Wife Married Female 25 1856 - Belfast, Antrim, Ireland Transcription Mary Cook Daughter Single Female 3 1878 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Transcription Harriet Cook Daughter Single Female 2 1879 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Transcription Jane Cook Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Transcription Mary Greygans Visitor Married Female 35 1846 - Manchester, Lancashire, England Transcription Frederick Greygans Visitor Single Male 0 1881 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Image does read Leah for mother and daughter instead of Jean. But Frances should read Harriet.
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Berners Street, Aston, Warwickshire, England Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place John Cook Head Married Male 36 1855 Pencil Case Maker Birmingham Transcription Leah Cook Wife Married Female 35 1856 Tin Cleaner - Belfast Mary Cook Daughter Single Female 13 1878 Scholar Birmingham Transcription Frances Cook Daughter Single Female 12 1879 Scholar Birmingham Transcription Leah Cook Daughter Single Female 10 1881 Scholar Birmingham Transcription Agnes Cook Daughter Single Female 8 1883 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Transcription John Cook Son Single Male 5 1886 - Birmingham Transcription William Cook Son Single Male 3 1888 - Birmingham Transcription Margaret Cook Daughter Single Female 2 1889 - Birmingham Transcription William Cook Brother Single Male 46 1845 Brass Castor Birmingham
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alviegal
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14 Sep 2014 19:18 |
As Jane disappears between 1871 and 1881, I was wondering about this marriage?
Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 about Jean Cooper Name: Jean Cooper of Essex St Gender: Female Birth Year: abt 1854 Marriage Date: 22 Feb 1874 Marriage Age: 20 Marriage Place: Birmingham, St Martin, Warwickshire, England Spouse: John Cook, silversmith of Essex St Spouse Gender: Male Spouse Marriage Age: 19 Father: Robert Cooper, currier Spouse's Father: John Cook, wheelwright Reference Number: DRO 34 Archive Roll: M122
Thomas Alfred Lynes and Mary-Jane Maria? Freeman were witnesses.
and then
Both widowed.
Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 about Jean Cook Name: Jean Cook, tin? cleaner of 2 Whitney Place [Jean Cooper] Gender: Female Birth Year: abt 1859 Marriage Date: 11 Nov 1906 Marriage Age: 47 Marriage Place: Birmingham, St Mark, Warwickshire, England Spouse: Alfred Palmer, ironworker of 9 Whitney Place Spouse Gender: Male Spouse Marriage Age: 52 Father: Robert Cooper, leather currier Spouse's Father: William Palmer, carpenter Reference Number: DRO 33 Archive Roll: 615
Samuel Green, Frank Leather, Mary Green and Margaret Cook were witnesses.
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alviegal
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14 Sep 2014 18:42 |
The 1841 Census for England was taken on the night of 6 June 1841
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Lever Street, Manchester, Lancashire, England Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place >>Robt Cooper Male 20 1821 Scotland D? Currier >>Agnes Aiton Female 40 1801 Scotland Transcription >>George Aiton Male 4 1837 Scotland Transcription >>Mary Cooper Female 20 1821 Scotland Transcription >>Agnes Cooper Female 2 1839 Scotland Transcription >>Jane Cooper Female 0 1841 Lancashire Transcription Saml McClung Male 45 1796 Scotland Transcription Catharine McClung Female 55 1786 Ireland Transcription John Mulby Male 35 1806 - Transcription Mary Mulby Female 40 1801 - Transcription Thomas Tracey Male 40 1801 Ireland Transcription Ellen Tracey Female 35 1806 Ireland Transcription Margt Tracey Female 15 1826 Ireland Transcription Jane Tracey Female 13 1828 Ireland Transcription Ann Tracey Female 11 1830 Ireland Transcription Mary Tracey Female 7 1834 Ireland Transcription Ann Donelley Female 23 1818 Ireland Transcription Ellen Hart Female 18 1823 Lancashire
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Ann
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14 Sep 2014 14:12 |
I am now wondering if the 1841 baptism you have found is the first Jane in the family, maybe I should get someone to have a look at the 1841 Census and see if Mary Cooper (Mother) was in manchester for the census as it would have been carried out close to the Birth of Jane, she could have been staying with someone at the time of the birth
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Ann
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14 Sep 2014 14:04 |
The 1851 Scottish Census not English Census
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Ann
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14 Sep 2014 14:00 |
Sorry Jane should be Lancashire I had been looking for Births in Lancashire but then noticed that the Jane b Manchester her parents where Robert and Louise
Robert and Mary had two daughters named Jane one born 1842 Lancashire and the other born 1856 Ireland, so I am thinking Jane b: 1842 had died
Have ruled out the two census for 1871 and 1881 as these are in Birmingham
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Gee
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14 Sep 2014 12:40 |
Hi
Are these two different families? Jane on the above 1851 is born in Lancashire
Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1901 (Cathedral)
Name:Jane Cooper
Birth Date:27 May 1841
Baptism Date:20 Jun 1841
Parish:Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's Name: Robert Cooper <<Currier
Mother's name: Mary Cooper
Archive Roll:764
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